Pre amp

joeinid · Jan 14, 2017

I've had both, although the original KX-R was one of my first forays into the high end many, many years ago. I admit it was not surrounded by great (by today's standards) gear back then, so my remembrance of it is somewhat jaded.

My opinion only, if you have absolutely no intention of upgrading an original KX-R to Twenty status, go for the KX-5 Twenty. It is a superb piece. If you have any intention, in the future, of upgrading the KX-R to Twenty status, get the KX-R. I loved both of mine (original KX-R and KX-5 Twenty).

The KX-5 twenty, I feel, will bring up the performance of your MX-R's and give you a sound somewhere between the KX-R and KX-R Twenty versions for a great price. I know someone who has a KX-5 Twenty with MX-R Twenty's and absolutely LOVES the combo. He has no intention of moving on or changing.

There have been a lot of great recommendations here and I'd love to hear all of them. I truly believe YOU will not go wrong with the KX-5 Twenty and you will not lose should you decide to sell it in the future. They are rare as hen's teeth on the second hand market. Without comparing the exact two preamps you intend to buy in your own system, all this is speculation and I doubt very many have done that exact comparison, sorry to say.

I know many here may disagree, buy Ayre is MY destination gear after having been through many brands. Even the "lowly" KX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty combo satisfies me like no other gear for relatively little money.

I have to plant my flag somewhere and this is where I get off the merry go round, admittedly the R Twenty series for me, but it's all good.

jasbirnandra said:
Has any one compared the Ayre KXR older version to the new KX5 twenty which is better and in what way

MadFloyd · Jan 15, 2017

flyer said:
Well, I will start by answering your last question. The Impera has a very linear response, from the lowest octave to the highest. It will not bloat anything but without making anything sound asceptic neither. It really builds upon what is associated as the upside of tubes (soundstage, natural timbre, harmonic extension, micro-dynamics) together with speed, heft, very good resolution and excellent dynamics. Yes, I am biased by saying this ... because I based my purchase decision on those criteria...

Major improvments of the Impera vis-à-vis the AR Ref5SE: resolution at the extremes as the low end left me wanting for example by the AR as it lacks heft and being able to distinguish the different bass lines. In other words, I found the AR to have bottom yes, but much less defined.
At the other end of the spectrum, the Impera goes on and on without sounding shrill or painful. The AR doesn't, it seems like cut off earlier or it can't handle the dynamic contrasts and reach needed to capture the full musical production.
The AR, in comparison to the Impera, is less linear and has an emphasis on the midrange.
Finally, the Impera (as other Aries Cerat) has a very low noise floor making you being able to connect much better with the performers.

The outcome of the comparison with the Pass XP20 was a bit different of course. The Pass being notably 'flatter' in sound image, less extended at the extremes, less harmonics richness, less capability to connect to the performance.

Caveat: only classical music used for evaluation.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. By your description, the Impera sounds like a good contender for me. Where I find most tube preamps fail is the bass. I've owned AR Ref 3 and Ref 5 and both were terrible in that respect.

Argonaut · Jan 15, 2017

MadFloyd said:
Thank you very much for the detailed response. By your description, the Impera sounds like a good contender for me. Where I find most tube preamps fail is the bass. I've owned AR Ref 3 and Ref 5 and both were terrible in that respect.

Good Grief! Forgive my Cynicism He is rather bound to pass comment so, is he not.....Aries Cerat, SMT and Entreq distributor for Belgium & The Netherlands - Tenor Audio Audition Center

Hyperion · Jan 15, 2017

The Ayre KX-R is of course the natural partner. It would be hard to justify or recommend anything else if you're not looking at finding some specific qualities that Ayre might not offer (whatever that might be). This is one of the world's finest units without a doubt. The CH L1 mentioned is surely up there as well, but combining it with MX-R would not make sense to me in relation to the KX-R (or KX-R Twenty). If you're looking at tweaking the system in whatever direction, I would look at and potentially change other parameters (source, cabling etc.).

/ Marcus

flyer · Jan 15, 2017

Harlequin said:
Good Grief! Forgive my Cynicism He is rather bound to pass comment so, is he not.....Aries Cerat, SMT and Entreq distributor for Belgium & The Netherlands - Tenor Audio Audition Center

Dear Harlequin, if I would read your post in a negative way, i could take it as an invitation to hide my interests... I guess, being a positive guy, this cannot be the purpose. If I write about a few characteristics of other equipment I have heard and others, without commercial interest, thereafter seem to go in the same direction as to the description given, is this discrediting or does it need to be descrited because I explained those characteristics (first)?

I like to see it the other way round, it shows that I am basing my choices of which brands and equipment I represent on real-life testing. The positive results by testing myself the brands in my signature have lead me to become their distributor, not the other way round!!

Now, if someone were to disagree with the characteristics I describe of competing products, then I would have no issue with that because everyone has different expectations. If I were then desperately trying to convince those divergent views of them being 'wrong' and me being 'right', then you will have any right to be a cynic. But not before, if you allow me saying so.

Argonaut · Jan 15, 2017

flyer.... Aside from the obviously blatant promotion, of a product within your portfolio, in a thread not specifically about said product, or in answer to a direct question, do you consider it ethical or even necessary to name the other companies and products in the manner that you have, now that you are a distributor ergo competitor ?

flyer · Jan 15, 2017

Harlequin said:
flyer.... Aside from the obviously blatant promotion, of a product within your portfolio, in a thread not specifically about said product, or in answer to a direct question, do you consider it ethical or even necessary to name the other companies and products in the manner that you have, now that you are a distributor ergo competitor ?

If someone is 'Addicted to (the) Best!' then it is, within the scope of the thread, relevant to open the eyes and ears of someone who is looking for a good preamp. Mind you, this is an online global forum. The Other distributors (competitors) do not seem to complain about it, except if you are a competitor ? If so, please share your interests then, as I do.

If you are just unhappy that I (and others) have diverted from the first post of this thread, then please say so, no need to be a cynic ...

But he who shouts loudest gets mostly what he wants, so I will not post any further on this thread and look forward to read about your interests and/or your first contribution of expertise with regards to the first post.

microstrip · Jan 15, 2017

flyer said:
The improvements of the REF40 over the REF5SE has probably to do with the much improved power supply unit which is then what the REF40 and the Impera have in common, with each their philosophy of course about the PSU. As very very few dealers had the REF40 and its price was about double the Impera, i didn't go down that route and I am happy I did, as thereafter it opened the possibility to be myself a distributor/dealer for Aries Cerat.

I was addressing the old REF5 - the REF5Se or the REF6 approach the REF40 in many aspects. But my main reason of posting was to remember that in order to know what an Audio Research preamplifier sounds like you should listen to it with an ARC power amplifier. In order to know how it interacts with power amplifiers of other brands you must listen - IMHO no solid rules here, except for electrical incompatibilities.

BTW, you should suppress the s from https in your signature site - your site is not a secure certified site and browsers block it.

The owner of www.audiorefinement.eu has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this web site.

joeinid · Jan 15, 2017

Dealer or not, I personally value everyone's input and opinion. There might be a product that I've never heard of or would have given second thought to hearing. I, of course, investigate everything before purchasing and make my own decisions ultimately.

We should all be smart enough to weigh everyone's post against past history and decide for ourselves.

Even "professional" reviews should be subject to scrutiny.

treitz3 · Jan 15, 2017

Posts that were off topic and contained personal swipes towards another WBF member have been deleted. Please show a little respect towards other members. Any further disruptions will result in administrative action. Please consider this a formal warning.

Tom

LL21 · Jan 15, 2017

In fairness to Flyer, he has always disclosed his professional allegiances. While i have to take what he says with a grain of salt, that could be applied to those who own a piece of equipment (but do not market it) simply because they are going to defend their own choices.

Many manufacturers have come here to discuss their own products...perhaps some in only a scientific way...but we have a number of dealers who have joined with varying levels of pro-product comments. Flyer seems pretty low on the list imho of advertising on the relative scale, and i definitely do not feel he broke any 'absolute scale' issues in his comments, particularly given his disclosure.

and to top it off...i have heard pretty sensational things about Aries Cerat from a few apparently unaffiliated members here as well, which simply makes me very intrigued to learn more about a line which is not too easy to get to hear.

i am not here to debate, simply to add a balance to comments (which i fully respect) where other members have voiced their concerns about professional bias.

knghifi · Jan 15, 2017

treitz3 said:
Posts that were off topic and contained personal swipes towards another WBF member have been deleted. Please show a little respect towards other members. Any further disruptions will result in administrative action. Please consider this a formal warning.

Tom

It's unfortunate my post was interpreted as a swipe toward another WBF member. I was simply sharing my definition of a PUBLIC forum to help end the argument. Go ahead with your administrative action!!!

sickophant · Jan 16, 2017

jasbirnandra said:
...
Robert Koda K10 - one vote from jfrech
...

And add another vote here for the K10 please.

jfrech · Jan 16, 2017

sickophant said:
And add another vote here for the K10 please.

I compared a Nagra Classic Preamp to my K10 over this past weekend. The Nagra is VERY good. Has a energy and resolving power to it. Excellent at the extremes too.

A bit unfair to compare it to my K10...given the price difference. I'll keep my vote with the K10. With a close 2nd to the Nagra Classic Pre...especially if price is a consideration.

sickophant · Jan 16, 2017

Mr. Frech, haha, it's been a while.

I was, of course, hoping in this time lag you would have already been giving us your impressions of your K15.

As it slaughters the performances of all comers.

What the ... ?

Jeffy · Jan 16, 2017

Nice system at home. What type of music do you listen too? Jeff

sickophant said:
Mr. Frech, haha, it's been a while.

I was, of course, hoping in this time lag you would have already been giving us your impressions of your K15.

As it slaughters the performances of all comers.

What the ... ?

MadFloyd · Jan 16, 2017

What is the K15?

joeinid · Jan 16, 2017

MadFloyd said:
What is the K15?

http://robert-koda.com/K15/K15.html

sickophant · Jan 16, 2017

Jeffy said:
Nice system at home. What type of music do you listen too? Jeff

Jeffy, thanks. Me?

Umm, broad, probably very broad, reach of tastes. A lot of metal lately but oddly returning to some of my early 90's roots in industrial chaos like Fushitsusha and Zeni Geva as the Japanese take on this genre was exceptional. For instance today I pulled up some Gorgoroth, but Norway's earlier blackness followed queue with devastatingly poor production standards, so went over to Will Haven. The Drones followed this for some Aussie rock'n roll magic, a little Feedtime and King Snake Roost to boost that Aussieness boisterousness but finished the day with some Indila, Stan Getz and then John Williams doing some Rodrigo Latin guitar.

Tough to say.

It might seem a little sporadic.

sickophant · Jan 16, 2017

joeinid said:
http://robert-koda.com/K15/K15.html

View attachment 30631

Yeah, wouldn't this be divine!

The K-10 already being so fine, the K-15 is surely something Rob worked hard at to be better and with hardware to match with dream coincident rows of SE and balanced for each input. A very nice utilitarian addition.

Apparently quite a substantial presentation.

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