Pre amp

jasbirnandra

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Apr 3, 2012
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Hello everybody I am using the old version of the AYRE MX R and am looking for a good Pre amp and have after some discussion here zeroed in on 3 of them could you guys vote for the one you think will be better and compatible and mate well with the Amps other than the KX R
Robert Koda K10 - one vote from jfrech
Ypsilon PST 100 active
Nagra jazz
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hello everybody I am using the old version of the AYRE MX R and am looking for a good Pre amp and have after some discussion here zeroed in on 3 of them could you guys vote for the one you think will be better and compatible and mate well with the Amps other than the KX R
Robert Koda K10 - one vote from jfrech
Ypsilon PST 100 active
Nagra jazz

I have compared Koda K10 to AR Ref 10, I have heard PST twice but never compared, and I compared the Nagra Jazz to Siltech C1 preamp (much more expensive). The K10 had more control and resolution than the AR. The AR was more airy with some harmonics. Sonrock on this forum, replaced his Einstein with the K10, but initially preferred the Einstein, then one of his valves blew up, and he went anti-valve. If you are willing to fly one day to Holland next day to London, I can tell you where to compare Nagra and K10.

The Nagra seemed great value for money, and was only marginally edged out by Siltech. The dealer too prefers the Siltech but he also loves the Nagra. Another dealer in Paris owned the Ypsilon and now prefers the Nagra (and he did seem honest in his perception). I really like the sound of the Ypsilon tone, which I think comes more from the pre than the Aelius, based on my demos.

There is one Ypsilon PST mk 1 for sale in the UK at what I think is a good price. If you want I can help you liaise, I won't make money of it, all I ask of you is that you first ship it to me, I compare it to the Nagra 15 mins from me, then ship it on to you :) (you don't have to do this, but if you do, it will answer many questions regarding preamps). For me Koda is out since it does not have a remote. Difference in these preamps is too small to warrant not having a remote. Ypsilon is single ended only, though it sells additional transformers for XLR outs.
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Are those 3 your only choices?

I think an ARC Ref 6 or Ayre KX5 twenty are contenders as well. I have and love MXR twenty amps. Both preamps that I've mentioned, I've owned and would be worthy partners to the MXR's.

What's your price range?
 

microstrip

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Are you considering having the power amplifiers upgraded? They will open the possibility of using an wide range of preamplifiers. IMHO in great systems you can not consider a preamplifier without analyzing the match with the power amplifier - some people even consider that it should be the central part of the system.

I owned the MXRs and sold them cheaply because I felt that they were not a good match with my ARC REF5 at that time - I later found following this pair of monoblocks changing hands that the original MXR's were really critical in matching. I regret doing so, the upgraded units are really good sounding, a good match for a much wider range of equipment and upgrade cost is very reasonable.

For the MXR Twenty you can also consider the VTL 7.5 mk3 and ARC REF10 or 6, although an anonymous but usually reliable source told me one the Koda K10 or K15 were really the great bet. Surely, all IMHO and YMMV.
 

jfrech

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Hi, I didn't realize you already had the KXR. It's a great preamp in its own right. As I said, I thought the Nagra Jazz is a really good 2nd to my K10 (for less than 1/2 the money!), but in your application really needs the balancing transformers for your Vivaldi Source and your MXR amps. My dealer is getting his Nagra Classic Preamp (with input and output balancing transformers) in a few days...this maybe the best option of all. I hope to hear it by next weekend...likley in my home next to my K10.

Since you have the KXR already...what cabling/power conditioning are you using? Improving here maybe the best bang for buck...unless your just after a diff sound...
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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Until now the best pre i listen and i have is CH Precision L1,that i have.
I compared at home with Kondo M7 and top Viva and is much better in every parameter.
I compared in a shop with Pass Xs,Pandora,Esoteric Grandioso and was better,more natural,aire,control on bass,ecc,ecc
This without his external power supply X1.
With X1,that you can buy later,i think is very hard to find better
 

jasbirnandra

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Apr 3, 2012
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You got it all wrong jfrech the current setup I have is dartzeel integrated (used as pre for the moment) and as for cabling I am using cables from a custom manufacturer called highend masterclass and power cables from analog tools with audience conditioner the cables are great but the week link is the PRE getting an option to buy at a very good price the 3 PREs listed in question which one will be right is the question
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Until now the best pre i listen and i have is CH Precision L1,that i have.
I compared at home with Kondo M7 and top Viva and is much better in every parameter.
I compared in a shop with Pass Xs,Pandora,Esoteric Grandioso and was better,more natural,aire,control on bass,ecc,ecc
This without his external power supply X1.
With X1,that you can buy later,i think is very hard to find better

Gian's friend Marco also prefers the CH to his Viva pre on his Alexandrias - and he has Viva amps
 

jfrech

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joeinid

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Food for thought.



http://www.soundstageultra.com/index...y-preamplifier

The KX-5 Twenty is not only the best preamplifier I have reviewed, it may be the best component of any type that I’ve reviewed. It’s only logical, then, that I give the KX-5 Twenty my highest recommendation, and bestow on it a Reviewers’ Choice award. Charles Hansen, I can’t wait to see -- and hear -- what you come up with next.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipmen...vx5_twenty.htm


http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index....s-last-5-years
 

flyer

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Dec 16, 2012
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May I suggest you consider the Aries Cerat Incito or Impera, depending on your budget? As a small example, I was able to do a direct comparison with the Audio Research Ref 5 se and the Impera is really a few levels above (couldn't test against the Incito though).

In December I did a shootout with a dealer of many big brands and we did a direct comparison (using a big Constellation power amp) between the Pass xp20 and the Impera and the latter was clearly the winner.
The dealer originally wanted to compare against the Constellation preamp but decided not do so as he said there was no point in doing so because, knowing the Constellation combination very well, he heard the amp doing things he never had experienced with the Constellation preamp... you could call it a knock-out of two preamps that were either the same price or a much more expensive one.
The dealer also said he couldn't think of another preamp in his line-up being able to play as musical as the Impera and he also distributes Nagra amongst other brands.
 

MadFloyd

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May I suggest you consider the Aries Cerat Incito or Impera, depending on your budget? As a small example, I was able to do a direct comparison with the Audio Research Ref 5 se and the Impera is really a few levels above (couldn't test against the Incito though).

In December I did a shootout with a dealer of many big brands and we did a direct comparison (using a big Constellation power amp) between the Pass xp20 and the Impera and the latter was clearly the winner.
The dealer originally wanted to compare against the Constellation preamp but decided not do so as he said there was no point in doing so because, knowing the Constellation combination very well, he heard the amp doing things he never had experienced with the Constellation preamp... you could call it a knock-out of two preamps that were either the same price or a much more expensive one.
The dealer also said he couldn't think of another preamp in his line-up being able to play as musical as the Impera and he also distributes Nagra amongst other brands.

In which ways was the Impera better than the Ref 5? How would you describe the character of the Impera?
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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I have the Nagra Classic preamp in my system now. With balanced input and output transformers. I'll be able to listen to it for a few days.

Only been in for 30 min...definitely a diff character than the Koda K10. I'll post more in a day or two as it warms up and the cables settle down...
 

flyer

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In which ways was the Impera better than the Ref 5? How would you describe the character of the Impera?

Well, I will start by answering your last question. The Impera has a very linear response, from the lowest octave to the highest. It will not bloat anything but without making anything sound asceptic neither. It really builds upon what is associated as the upside of tubes (soundstage, natural timbre, harmonic extension, micro-dynamics) together with speed, heft, very good resolution and excellent dynamics. Yes, I am biased by saying this ... because I based my purchase decision on those criteria...

Major improvments of the Impera vis-à-vis the AR Ref5SE: resolution at the extremes as the low end left me wanting for example by the AR as it lacks heft and being able to distinguish the different bass lines. In other words, I found the AR to have bottom yes, but much less defined.
At the other end of the spectrum, the Impera goes on and on without sounding shrill or painful. The AR doesn't, it seems like cut off earlier or it can't handle the dynamic contrasts and reach needed to capture the full musical production.
The AR, in comparison to the Impera, is less linear and has an emphasis on the midrange.
Finally, the Impera (as other Aries Cerat) has a very low noise floor making you being able to connect much better with the performers.

The outcome of the comparison with the Pass XP20 was a bit different of course. The Pass being notably 'flatter' in sound image, less extended at the extremes, less harmonics richness, less capability to connect to the performance.

Caveat: only classical music used for evaluation.
 

bonzo75

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I find that AR strength is mids, and being airy. There is not much control, separation, definition of bottom end, and roundedness of various instruments. Yet, I like comparing to it, because it is involving and a good regular reference you get to hear in many places
 

flyer

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I find that AR strength is mids, and being airy. There is not much control, separation, definition of bottom end, and roundedness of various instruments. Yet, I like comparing to it, because it is involving and a good regular reference you get to hear in many places

Can't agree more then...
 

microstrip

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I find that AR strength is mids, and being airy. There is not much control, separation, definition of bottom end, and roundedness of various instruments. Yet, I like comparing to it, because it is involving and a good regular reference you get to hear in many places

My long experience is with the ARC REF40 - I must say that it is very different from the REF5, that I owned previously. It had great definition at the bottom end - curiously more bass detail, plunging in the bass structure like few preamplifiers do. You could feel the detail of air moving in low bass and the room low frequency boundaries in an unbelievable way. I said before, it allows you to enjoy the best things of digital bass without becoming oppressive, as many solid state preamplfiers do. I will skip "separation" - it is one its strongest points!
 

flyer

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Dec 16, 2012
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My long experience is with the ARC REF40 - I must say that it is very different from the REF5, that I owned previously. It had great definition at the bottom end - curiously more bass detail, plunging in the bass structure like few preamplifiers do. You could feel the detail of air moving in low bass and the room low frequency boundaries in an unbelievable way. I said before, it allows you to enjoy the best things of digital bass without becoming oppressive, as many solid state preamplfiers do. I will skip "separation" - it is one its strongest points!

The improvements of the REF40 over the REF5SE has probably to do with the much improved power supply unit which is then what the REF40 and the Impera have in common, with each their philosophy of course about the PSU. As very very few dealers had the REF40 and its price was about double the Impera, i didn't go down that route and I am happy I did, as thereafter it opened the possibility to be myself a distributor/dealer for Aries Cerat.
 

jasbirnandra

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Apr 3, 2012
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Has any one compared the Ayre KXR older version to the new KX5 twenty which is better and in what way
 

hifial

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Apr 7, 2013
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Check out BESPOKE

Hello everybody I am using the old version of the AYRE MX R and am looking for a good Pre amp and have after some discussion here zeroed in on 3 of them could you guys vote for the one you think will be better and compatible and mate well with the Amps other than the KX R
Robert Koda K10 - one vote from jfrech
Ypsilon PST 100 active
Nagra jazz

I know you are asking just about those three but may I HIGHLY recommend the BESPOKE for your consideration. Also they make a version with silver wire that you should discuss with the principle to see if that would suit your needs better.

http://www.thebespokeaudiocompany.com/

I hope that can help you and good luck.
 

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