Magico on the cover of Stereophile

Maybe he asked the wrong Peter, easy to confuse Mcgrath and Mackay

ACK is hanging on that bottle of single malt dearly

bonzo75 said:

Maybe he asked the wrong Peter, easy to confuse Mcgrath and Mackay

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Leif S said:

Hi Adam,
I'm not going to state this is impossible because we happen to have a 6" midrange driver that dam near has the same peak to peak excursion of some of the woofers we use. So that driver could be used in an enclosure sharing airspace with the woofers. So it's not impossible. Would the mids sound as good as a mid in it's own enclosure? Highly unlikely.

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Leif,

Again, apples to oranges.

6" mid may have the same excursion as a 6" woofer. In fact, it is not uncommon. Many 2.5 way designs use that arrangement. However, we are not talking about woofer and a mid of same surface area. We are talking about Magico S5, where a 5" mid works with two 10" woofers. The difference in cone area is 1 to 8 (mid to woofers).

Now, what happens with the mid, in a joint volume of a sealed box, when the woofer goes down ? The mid goes up of course. If the cone area of both speakers is the same, both will travel similar distance, although in opposite directions .

Now what happens if the mid and the woofer were different in size ? Well, if the woofer was twice as big, the mid would have to travel twice as much to compensate ! So if a 10" woofer went down by 1", the 7" mid (7" is half the surface area of 10") would have to go up twice as far to compensate, which is ~2" (I put ~2 instead of =2, as air is compressible plus there are other, although small variables).

In case of Magico, two 10" woofers have the surface area which is 8 times greater than a single 5" mid. So if the go down 1/2" (which is within their linear excursion), the mid would have to go up 8x as far to compensate, which is 4" ! That is of course - absurd. And since the mid linear excursion is closer to 2-3mm, it means the mid driver would bottom out when the woofers mooved as little as ... 0.3mm ! (that is 0.01 of an inch for those not into metric system)

Don't you see, that even at first sight, and without doing any calculations, Ack's 'theory' is a pure nonsense ?

And since you are a pro, you could verify that by looking at distortion measurements which have been discussed in this thread. If the mid was working in the same volume as the two woofers, the THD figures @ 100dB for the mid driver would sky rocket, rather than stay at less than 0.1% THD:



I think it is obvoius even for people with moderate knowledge on how speakers work, and must have been obvious for a speaker designer.

I'm even more surprised reading that you 'enjoyed the discussion'. It means you enjoyed watching a competitor beeing bashed, even though you knew all too well, it was all BS from start to finish.

andromedaaudio said:

ACK is hanging on that bottle of single malt dearly

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Are you suggesting, that this is the Magic(o) that Ack consulted ?

I do think so to be honest , and like you said i rather believe the designer then a salesperson.

Ps i also tested the induced current claim by pushing the woofers , the induced current aint big enough to move the mid , my identical mids operate in a single volume which is concealed from the woooferspace .
If i push the woofer the mids dont move visually , if i push one mid inward , the other one goes outward , as air is not that easy to compress.
I use a parallel filter

Elberoth said:

Yeah, right.

Let me think - who would have a better idea what is inside the speaker: an export manager, who only joined Magico last year and is not even based in California (Peter works remotely out of New York) or the speaker's creator himself ?

Not to mention the fact, that you are most likely even is wrongly quoting Peter Mackay.

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Both you and Mr. Alon Wolf can attack all you want, while I continue to stick to the point (midrange cover). But in my eyes, Mr. Alon Wolf's response was really directed at Mr. Mackay, by correcting him and what he told me in a public way. In my eyes again, neither you or Mr. Wolf have any credibility at this point for the way you conduct yourselves, if it wasn't obvious from your earlier attacks. The bottom line is still the same: Magico has no pictures of the alleged midrange enclosure in the S5 Mk I, in the configuration that first went to market. At this point, exactly because your credibility is non-existent with me, I have no reason to believe any further "evidence" or comments.

BlueFox said:

Well, if anyone knows his speakers, it is Alon. Anyway, all this talk of S5 v2 has influenced me to take the money I was saving for a Lexus SUV, and order a pair. This is actually better than the car since, with my S5 trade-in, I am saving a ton of money.

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Congrats, Bud! I'm very happy for you and confident you made the right decision. I have no doubt you are going to love them.

ack said:

Both you and Mr. Alon Wolf can attack all you want, while I continue to stick to the point (midrange cover). But in my eyes, Mr. Alon Wolf's response was really directed at Mr. Mackay, by correcting him and what he told me in a public way. In my eyes again, neither you or Mr. Wolf have any credibility at this point for the way you conduct yourselves, if it wasn't obvious from your earlier attacks. The bottom line is still the same: Magico has no pictures of the alleged midrange enclosure in the S5 Mk I, in the configuration that first went to market. At this point, exactly because your credibility is non-existent with me, I have no reason to believe any further "evidence" or comments.

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I've never realised Alon Wolf attacked anyone. He doesn't even follow this discussion (I belive he is at CES right now), not to mention take part in it. I have posted his answer to my email (by his permission), where he only stated the facts. No attacing, no judgeing, apart from the rather obvious suggestion, that you must have had misunderstood Peter.

At this I think it is obvious for anyone, that you are the type of guy, who is just not able to admit he was wrong, and no evidence presented will ever change that.

Even is someone posts a pic to further reinvorce what has been already said in this thread, you will always say that the pic does not show your imagined 'earlier version' or some other BS. Basicly everything, that will help you (in your mind) escape the inevitable truth.

Elberoth said:

I've never realised Alon Wolf attacked anyone. He doesn't even follow this discussion (I belive he is at CES right now), not to mention take part in it. I have posted his answer to my email (by his permission), where he only stated the facts. No attacing, no judgeing, apart from the rather obvious suggestion, that you must have had misunderstood Peter.

At this I think it is obvious for anyone, that you are the type of guy, who is just not able to admit he was wrong, and no evidence presented will ever change that.

Even is someone posts a pic to further reinvorce what has been already said in this thread, you will always say that the pic does not show your imagined 'earlier version' or some other BS. Basicly everything, that will help you (in your mind) escape the inevitable truth.

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Mr. Alon Wolf did attack me when he said 'Ack is wrongly quoting Peter Mackay' - Mr. Wolf was not present in the conversation, and is being judgmental and so are you; again, I quoted Mr. Mackay VERBATIM. And you have presented NO evidence of the midrange enclosure, only conjecture. And yes, at this point, even if you were to post a picture now, I would question the validity and the intent. That's because you have no credibility with me anymore, and you lost your chance, and have for months. On the other hand, I have the confirmation I was looking for. Keep in mind that what you write and how you write it reflects directly on Magico; so far, what you have written comes across as sheer fantasy, perhaps like your reviews??!?? Would love to read your reviews... Now let's move on, lest we derail the thread any more.

Too bad the only evidence you can provide to back up your story, is your impression of your conversation with Peter Mackey. No data, picture, test results - nothing. Even the basic physics is against you.

I agree with you thought in one thing - it is time to move on. This was my last post in this thread.

Elberoth said:

Too bad the only evidence you can provide to back up your story, is your impression of your conversation with Peter Mackey. No data, picture, test results - nothing. Even the basic physics is against you.

I agree with you thought in one thing - it is time to move on. This was my last post in this thread.

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Adam, are you a dealer/associate/rep for Magico in Poland? Just curious, LOL.

There is one final solution here , when bluefox trades in his mk 1 he can make a deal with his dealer .
Part of the deal is the dealer pushing gently on the woofers to see if the mid moves .


Ps but hey then ACK can say its not the early mk 1 version ,.... so i think its best to let it be , or may be other mk 1 owners will step up and unscrue their mids to finish this mysterie once and for all lol

PS disclaimer dont do this because if magico has a production proces screwing in the mids first and insert the filter on the bottom plate, the wires might be to short, and you cant pull the mid out

DaveyF said:

Adam, are you a dealer/associate/rep for Magico in Poland? Just curious, LOL.

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No, and have never been a dealer/associate/rep for ANY brand. I've been working for AUDIO magazine for 22 years and have been running what has become the second largest hifi show in Europe for 20 years:

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/opinion/1025-warsaw-the-best-of-audio-video-show-2016

Both as a hobby I might add, as I run a company in a totally different biz (not audio related).

I had never written a single Magico review, although I did a Magico factory tour for our mag (which is how I met Alon). I have also visited 30+ other factories around the world, including such US speaker manufacturers as Martin Logan, Wilson Audio and Avalon Acoustics.

I had a privilege to visit such a famous speaker designers Jacques Mahul, David Wilson and Franco Serblin. Alon Wolf is up with them IMO.

Hope this helps.

MadFloyd said:

Congrats, Bud! I'm very happy for you and confident you made the right decision. I have no doubt you are going to love them.

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Thanks Ian. I went from no more big purchases to this. At least I lasted a couple of years. LOL.

Here is Myles's S5 Mk II review http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/magico-s5-mk-2-loudspeakers/ as I heard it as well, and with the same hardware and software he discusses. It's probably rare to be able to hear a system exactly as reviewed, but given my luck, I can attest to everything he wrote, including the quality of the sources he used, and even the comparisons among the various editions of the software he used. More than the speakers, those Doshi V3.0+ phono and tape stages are really something special. How often does one get the chance to be able to meaningfully judge a review, and from this vantage point, this one gets my thumbs up for accuracy.

microstrip said:

He did not compare, but we can compare his review of the Alexia and the S5 mk2. Just did it and IMHO it is all there. We just have to read and think. Curiously, comparing the Martin Colloms reviews of the Alexia and the old S5 was also very instructive.

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Missed this thread all together, that is too bad.
Don't know about JA, but Martin Colloms did buy an S5 Mk2, so I guess we know what he thinks...

+1

Quite an enthusiastic review, I might add:

http://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/S5/Magico_S5_II_complete.pdf

Elberoth said:

+1

Quite an enthusiastic review, I might add:

http://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/S5/Magico_S5_II_complete.pdf

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That is a very impressive review and I really enjoyed the detailed technical section. I wonder Adam how your former S5II will compare to your new M3.