All New Yamaha NS 5000 Speakers..... World-Beaters ?

Audio_Karma

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Sep 24, 2012
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I paired my NS-5000 with the Luxman 590axII, which is Class A 30 watts, but actually after that its AB to about 100 watts. Luxman really doesn't explain this at all. There was only one review but I searched the forums to confirm this. I can tell you the amp has plenty of power. Even Yamaha's new separates their 5000 series preamp and amp have only a little more power. My thinking was I loved the new Yamaha 3000 integrated and you can buy them pretty cheap. But Yamaha years ago pioneered some interesting Class A amps and I didn't want to do tubes, so high bias Class A, like Pass, I thought would be a good compromise. Most of the time we're only using a few watts and even my old NAD M3, 180 watts dual mono, had 5 watts of bias in Class A. I like the looks of the Yamaha 3000 a little better than the Luxman but also in searching integrateds wanted those big VU meters! The 590 is big and really heavy. I bought it only a few months old for about the same price as the Yamaha integrated list (but more than you can get these online) and thought it was a better value. It's fine for me, but I have nothing to compare it to. I was very interested in the new Yamaha 5000 separates, but two things stopped me even before any review. One, I really am space constrained and two, these are about $10k each. I couldn't see spending $20k on $15k speakers. It seemed like a mismatch. However, now that I have the NS-5000 my thinking is it is as good as a $20k or more value. I think Yamaha maybe should have price their separates lower and the speakers higher to come to the same $35k total and make the amp/speaker ratio a little different. But I'm just guessing.

The new Pure Audio One amp might be one of the very best values to come on the market! Pure Class A 100 Watts $10K
The very best of both worlds!

www.pureaudio.co.nz/?page_id=606

WOW! "As GOOD as top of the line VAC Tube Gear
'!

https://www.theaudiobeatnik.com/pureaudio-one-integrated-amplifier-review-part-2/
 
Last edited:

tobiasrankin

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2020
308
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I paired my NS-5000 with the Luxman 590axII, which is Class A 30 watts, but actually after that its AB to about 100 watts. Luxman really doesn't explain this at all. There was only one review but I searched the forums to confirm this. I can tell you the amp has plenty of power. Even Yamaha's new separates their 5000 series preamp and amp have only a little more power. My thinking was I loved the new Yamaha 3000 integrated and you can buy them pretty cheap. But Yamaha years ago pioneered some interesting Class A amps and I didn't want to do tubes, so high bias Class A, like Pass, I thought would be a good compromise. Most of the time we're only using a few watts and even my old NAD M3, 180 watts dual mono, had 5 watts of bias in Class A. I like the looks of the Yamaha 3000 a little better than the Luxman but also in searching integrateds wanted those big VU meters! The 590 is big and really heavy. I bought it only a few months old for about the same price as the Yamaha integrated list (but more than you can get these online) and thought it was a better value. It's fine for me, but I have nothing to compare it to. I was very interested in the new Yamaha 5000 separates, but two things stopped me even before any review. One, I really am space constrained and two, these are about $10k each. I couldn't see spending $20k on $15k speakers. It seemed like a mismatch. However, now that I have the NS-5000 my thinking is it is as good as a $20k or more value. I think Yamaha maybe should have price their separates lower and the speakers higher to come to the same $35k total and make the amp/speaker ratio a little different. But I'm just guessing.

How are you liking the NS5000? How do you have them setup? Distance they are apart? Toe in? Size of room ?
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
19
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133
How are you liking the NS5000? How do you have them setup? Distance they are apart? Toe in? Size of room ?
Sorry I just saw your reply from July and August. I love the speakers! It took me a while to get them set up properly as I wanted to find a way to be able to move them around on carpet to do so by myself. I finally have done so with some audiophile anti-vibration platforms from Poland and casters. Now, I've found even possibly a better way. I will post photos and details soon. I can tell you the room I have is pretty ideal, about 15 x 20 I think with a ceiling that slopes from 8 to 20 feet. It's a living room so is open to the rest of the house, not a specialized room. The recent review from Absolute Sound is right in that you have to put the speakers into the room, not close to a wall. I set them up with the speakers just a little closer together than they are from the listening position. What really made the difference was the ability to make the location and tuning exercise a one-person job. The casters were necessary to do that but as important was absolute proper measurement and toe in. That was achieved with two $25 laser measurement tools, although it can be done with one. Really, you can't use a tape measure and hope you've got the distance right but more importantly only the laser will give you the right toe in. Doing that visually and then with the laser showed me how far off the "it looks right" approach can be. I would say this process applies to all speakers and that manufacturers need to build in this ability in their speakers. It really is a free upgrade to the sound.
 
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tobiasrankin

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2020
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Sorry I just saw your reply from July and August. I love the speakers! It took me a while to get them set up properly as I wanted to find a way to be able to move them around on carpet to do so by myself. I finally have done so with some audiophile anti-vibration platforms from Poland and casters. Now, I've found even possibly a better way. I will post photos and details soon. I can tell you the room I have is pretty ideal, about 15 x 20 I think with a ceiling that slopes from 8 to 20 feet. It's a living room so is open to the rest of the house, not a specialized room. The recent review from Absolute Sound is right in that you have to put the speakers into the room, not close to a wall. I set them up with the speakers just a little closer together than they are from the listening position. What really made the difference was the ability to make the location and tuning exercise a one-person job. The casters were necessary to do that but as important was absolute proper measurement and toe in. That was achieved with two $25 laser measurement tools, although it can be done with one. Really, you can't use a tape measure and hope you've got the distance right but more importantly only the laser will give you the right toe in. Doing that visually and then with the laser showed me how far off the "it looks right" approach can be. I would say this process applies to all speakers and that manufacturers need to build in this ability in their speakers. It really is a free upgrade to the sound.

Awesome. Amazing how precise you are being. I bet its paying off. What other speakers did you audition before settling on the NS5K ?
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
19
6
133
Awesome. Amazing how precise you are being. I bet its paying off. What other speakers did you audition before settling on the NS5K ?

Sorry I don't get to this forum very often. My previous system was a Sony XA-5400ES SACD, NAD M-3 Integrated Amp, Gallo 3.1 speakers with the SA subwoofer amp that energies a second voice coil. Great little system from 2006 or so. My plan was to replace just the speakers and see how everything sounded, then the plan was to follow up by doing the same thing with the other components. In the end, I just swapped out everything. It turned out to be really hard to follow the original plan because the components are in a kind of cubbyhole and the Luxman went on top for cooling purposes (it turned out it really does not run hot) and I could not lift it myself and it took really precise measuring to make sure it fit, including the interconnects. It did, but barely. I couldn't fit the larger Pass integrated.

I auditioned only a few loudspeakers. The Wilson Sabrina, the Vandersteen Quattro Wood 4 and B&W 803d3 as I was trying to stay at around $15,000. Thought I wanted white speakers which the Wilson and B&W's have, but decided against that. Decor is a big factor with me and if I don't like the looks of the speaker I won't buy it. I heard the B&W with McIntosh tube gear and thought that was great. I was ready to buy the B&W when Yamaha announced the NS-5000. Over 40 years ago as a newly married young guy I passed on the NS-1000 when it came to the USA and I regretted that ever since, so I waited for the Yamaha. And waited and waited. It took 4 years for the USA to get distribution and it was the last market in the world for some reason. In the interim I got my hands on reviews from all over the world, Japan, Indonesia, Australia, UK, Poland, Germany, Norway and more. Every reviewer loved them. I did the same thing for the Luxman 590axii and the Marantz SA-10 SACD player and Shunyata Venom balanced interconnects I chose, although there were far fewer reviews on these so I searched forums and you tube and did as much research as I possibly could. I then got the Luxman on Audiogon, the Marantz open box and the Yamaha's as demos from a UK dealer. I needed a pair of 15 ft. speaker cables in black and found a good deal on a pair of Straightwire Expressivo Grande on Audiomart. Never listened to any of these beforehand. I kept my Richard Gray's Power Company 400 ac line conditioner from 2006 and the system sounded better with it. It's a great little system and I didn't spend the moon. Now, I can afford to spend much more and I'm sure could get better sound, but the system scales well to the room and the rest of my furniture. The thing that amazed me more on the Yamaha than even the incredible midrange and tweeter is the bass. Although Yamaha specs show it does down to 26hz, they don't have a db measurement with this. I'll bet their spec is conservative. The 12" woofer really is like having a subwoofer. Bass slam when the music calls for it is amazing. Positioning the speakers is critical, both to have them away from back walls, distances and toe in. I found a laser was the way to go and didn't realize how inaccurate measurements can be by eye or even with a tape measure, and in particular for toe in.

I will say that I considered a tube integrated amp and researched those, but didn't want to take a chance with the Yamaha, since Yamaha introduced the speaker with its solid state gear. However, Yamaha has a long history with Class A amps and so I thought Class A would be a good match. I researched this and found my NAD was class A to 5 watts, then went to AB. Similarly, the Luxman 590axii is Class A to 30 watts and then switches to AB, while the 590ax switches out of Class A at less than 30 watts. Most listening uses only a few watts, and my NAD always sounded good so I thought more Class A couldn't hurt, only help in terms of having this overhead. I was worried the Luxman wouldn't be enough power for the Yamaha's but even the new Yamaha 5000 separate amp doesn't have much more than 120 watts I think. Seems the Luxman is a good match.

I've read reviews consistently for over 50 years, having started subscribing to Stereo Review and Audio magazines from age 16 until they ceased publication. These days, it's hard to find a bad piece of gear, just like it's hard to find a bad car compared to what we drove in the mid- to late- last century. The trick is to get real bang for the buck, real value that fits your budget and lifestyle. Give a car designer enough money and they can design a McClaren, Buggati, etc. But what can they do when they're shooting for a $70k target - a Corvette. I find the same is true of higher end audio gear. Interestingly, for the most part the reviewers leave this part of the judgment up to the reader. I guess that's proper or they don't want to offend the manufacturers or, most likely it's a combination of this along with the fact there's so much gear out there that 's so good its just so difficult to pin down what real value is, and like beauty, it's simply in the eye of the beholder. I'll probably never know if I could have done better but if I obsessed, I wouldn't sleep. I'm happy and think I did ok. I will say that with my setup, you still have to like the music you listen to and the quality of the recording really makes the difference, as should be the case. When you've got a good system, music you like and a good recording, they you've got it.

I've attached some photos that show the cubbyhole I have to deal with and the steel anti-vibration isolation plates I purchased from Tewo Audio in Poland and the stick on casters I added to be able to precisely position the speakers on carpet since moving them is really a two person job. I've had to experiment to arrive at this solution (there's blue tac between the legs of the speaker stand and the plate). I've since found a better way and will report on that. However, these steel plates are extremely heavy and definitely tightened up the bass and because that bass is prodigious I recommend some kind of isolation beyond what Yamaha supplies. Even Yamaha demos in Japan used Kripton bases on carpet.
 

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tobiasrankin

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2020
308
57
93
44
Sorry I don't get to this forum very often. My previous system was a Sony XA-5400ES SACD, NAD M-3 Integrated Amp, Gallo 3.1 speakers with the SA subwoofer amp that energies a second voice coil. Great little system from 2006 or so. My plan was to replace just the speakers and see how everything sounded, then the plan was to follow up by doing the same thing with the other components. In the end, I just swapped out everything. It turned out to be really hard to follow the original plan because the components are in a kind of cubbyhole and the Luxman went on top for cooling purposes (it turned out it really does not run hot) and I could not lift it myself and it took really precise measuring to make sure it fit, including the interconnects. It did, but barely. I couldn't fit the larger Pass integrated.

I auditioned only a few loudspeakers. The Wilson Sabrina, the Vandersteen Quattro Wood 4 and B&W 803d3 as I was trying to stay at around $15,000. Thought I wanted white speakers which the Wilson and B&W's have, but decided against that. Decor is a big factor with me and if I don't like the looks of the speaker I won't buy it. I heard the B&W with McIntosh tube gear and thought that was great. I was ready to buy the B&W when Yamaha announced the NS-5000. Over 40 years ago as a newly married young guy I passed on the NS-1000 when it came to the USA and I regretted that ever since, so I waited for the Yamaha. And waited and waited. It took 4 years for the USA to get distribution and it was the last market in the world for some reason. In the interim I got my hands on reviews from all over the world, Japan, Indonesia, Australia, UK, Poland, Germany, Norway and more. Every reviewer loved them. I did the same thing for the Luxman 590axii and the Marantz SA-10 SACD player and Shunyata Venom balanced interconnects I chose, although there were far fewer reviews on these so I searched forums and you tube and did as much research as I possibly could. I then got the Luxman on Audiogon, the Marantz open box and the Yamaha's as demos from a UK dealer. I needed a pair of 15 ft. speaker cables in black and found a good deal on a pair of Straightwire Expressivo Grande on Audiomart. Never listened to any of these beforehand. I kept my Richard Gray's Power Company 400 ac line conditioner from 2006 and the system sounded better with it. It's a great little system and I didn't spend the moon. Now, I can afford to spend much more and I'm sure could get better sound, but the system scales well to the room and the rest of my furniture. The thing that amazed me more on the Yamaha than even the incredible midrange and tweeter is the bass. Although Yamaha specs show it does down to 26hz, they don't have a db measurement with this. I'll bet their spec is conservative. The 12" woofer really is like having a subwoofer. Bass slam when the music calls for it is amazing. Positioning the speakers is critical, both to have them away from back walls, distances and toe in. I found a laser was the way to go and didn't realize how inaccurate measurements can be by eye or even with a tape measure, and in particular for toe in.

I will say that I considered a tube integrated amp and researched those, but didn't want to take a chance with the Yamaha, since Yamaha introduced the speaker with its solid state gear. However, Yamaha has a long history with Class A amps and so I thought Class A would be a good match. I researched this and found my NAD was class A to 5 watts, then went to AB. Similarly, the Luxman 590axii is Class A to 30 watts and then switches to AB, while the 590ax switches out of Class A at less than 30 watts. Most listening uses only a few watts, and my NAD always sounded good so I thought more Class A couldn't hurt, only help in terms of having this overhead. I was worried the Luxman wouldn't be enough power for the Yamaha's but even the new Yamaha 5000 separate amp doesn't have much more than 120 watts I think. Seems the Luxman is a good match.

I've read reviews consistently for over 50 years, having started subscribing to Stereo Review and Audio magazines from age 16 until they ceased publication. These days, it's hard to find a bad piece of gear, just like it's hard to find a bad car compared to what we drove in the mid- to late- last century. The trick is to get real bang for the buck, real value that fits your budget and lifestyle. Give a car designer enough money and they can design a McClaren, Buggati, etc. But what can they do when they're shooting for a $70k target - a Corvette. I find the same is true of higher end audio gear. Interestingly, for the most part the reviewers leave this part of the judgment up to the reader. I guess that's proper or they don't want to offend the manufacturers or, most likely it's a combination of this along with the fact there's so much gear out there that 's so good its just so difficult to pin down what real value is, and like beauty, it's simply in the eye of the beholder. I'll probably never know if I could have done better but if I obsessed, I wouldn't sleep. I'm happy and think I did ok. I will say that with my setup, you still have to like the music you listen to and the quality of the recording really makes the difference, as should be the case. When you've got a good system, music you like and a good recording, they you've got it.

I've attached some photos that show the cubbyhole I have to deal with and the steel anti-vibration isolation plates I purchased from Tewo Audio in Poland and the stick on casters I added to be able to precisely position the speakers on carpet since moving them is really a two person job. I've had to experiment to arrive at this solution (there's blue tac between the legs of the speaker stand and the plate). I've since found a better way and will report on that. However, these steel plates are extremely heavy and definitely tightened up the bass and because that bass is prodigious I recommend some kind of isolation beyond what Yamaha supplies. Even Yamaha demos in Japan used Kripton bases on carpet.

Awesome, thanks. If you had to buy now what speakers would you buy?
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
19
6
133
Awesome, thanks. If you had to buy now what speakers would you buy?
All I can say is that I would try to stay in the same price range of about $15,000 list price. I think that's a sweet spot for value. There are so many variables that go into putting a system together I find it very difficult to imagine let alone listen to all the combinations of front end, amplification and transducer. I will say that the real sweet spot is both recording and music dependent. I've found music you don't like that much that is recorded properly or music that you do like that is poorly recorded can't hold a candle to music you do like that has been recorded and mastered properly. Even music you do like that's been remastered often doesn't live up to its billing. I really don't know why today any music isn't recorded and mastered like I think it should. This aspect of the music chain makes all the difference and if the opportunity is missed on the front end then no amount of tweaking, remastering or mqa'ing can fix it really. I think its why some older recordings are excellent and some new stuff is awful. In my opinion, this very front end part of the process is more important than the specific equipment upon which or through which you listen and is more of an art than we realize. In all my years of reading audiophile publications, I don't recall any really good articles about it. Perhaps if a top recording engineer really explained their secret sauce recipe, they'd be training their competition and giving away business.
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
19
6
133
TAS gave NS5000, 2020 loudspeaker of the year. Cool.
The little blurb also said the NS-5000 was underpriced. Absolute Sound gave the speaker a good review, but there were so many little details they could not include (probably for space reasons or because there was so much) about the speaker's technical development. If any smaller manufacturer had this much technical prowess and production ability I believe the NS-5000 would easily justify a $22,500 - $30,000 price.
 

tobiasrankin

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Mar 7, 2020
308
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The little blurb also said the NS-5000 was underpriced. Absolute Sound gave the speaker a good review, but there were so many little details they could not include (probably for space reasons or because there was so much) about the speaker's technical development. If any smaller manufacturer had this much technical prowess and production ability I believe the NS-5000 would easily justify a $22,500 - $30,000 price.

Wouldn't be surprised. Truly well made speakers for sure. Only thing is not hand made in Japan... I think its Thailand or Malayasia so thats kind of explains maybe pricing it lower?
 

rustplane

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2016
19
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133
They are made in Indonesia in the same factory where they make Yamaha pianos. The attention to detail involved adjusting the production process for the birch grown in Hokkaido, Japan .Hokkaido Birch is prized for audio and musical instruments (Sony also uses it on their high end ES speakers). The mill had to develop special production and finishing processes so the birch would not warp when it was sent to humid Indonesia (they found this out the hard way). This and a myriad of details are part of the behind the scenes story that never gets told. Obviously, making the speakers in Indonesia keeps the price down, but does not affect the quality, as the Indonesian piano factory would have skilled craftsman with years of experience. Thus, Yamaha's commitment to quality and quality control allows them to claim they are the "Company of Manufacture" rather than "Country of Manufacture". I've had my speakers now for almost 2 years and they keep getting better.
 

yyzSB

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May 14, 2017
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How bad would they NS5000 sound if placed close to the front wall, say a foot or less. The room has very tall ceilings. The dealer I am talking with says that it works in such a placement. How about actual owners. Have you ever tried this placement?
 

Addicted to hifi

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Sep 8, 2020
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How bad would they NS5000 sound if placed close to the front wall, say a foot or less. The room has very tall ceilings. The dealer I am talking with says that it works in such a placement. How about actual owners. Have you ever tried this placement?
I heard then at a hifi show in that position and they sounded fantastic.
 
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tobiasrankin

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Mar 7, 2020
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I will be pairing ns5000 with an ARC ref5se tube preamp soon (currently using audio gd he9 into pass x350.8). Will report my findings.
 

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