wilson audio sasha or martin logan cls

I like the CLS better, but I am biased towards dipoles.

Maybe the newest ML reviewed in this month's Stereophile?

Hi Apogee,

Neither one is better, per se - they are different. Neither speaker will dominate the other on all criteria. So it will depend on your taste and the tradeoffs you are willing to make.

A number of years ago I was at a friend's house who owned some version of the CLS as well as the newer martin logan models. The CLSs had a lot of realistic magic due to incomparable coherency (other than Soundlab!), but the newer ML models had more clarity and had more bass. However, the bass sounded disjointed due to poor implementation of the hybrid panel - woofer integration technology.

Martin Logan has been working for a while to implement better woofer - panel integration for years. Every time they release a new model, about every 4-5 years, the audio journalists claim that ML has finally done it. Then you wait another few years for the new product cycle, and these same audio journalists (ML marketing representatives is a much better term) claim that yet again a miraculous, seamless driver integration has been achieved... If you read all of these reviews at once, it reads like the proverbial broken record...

On the other hand, Wilson, it is safe to say, will not have the same seamless integration as the single panel martin logan. I would be curious to know if it has more clarity, having a newer midrange driver. Obviously, Wilson will have more (better???) bass.

Also, the Wilson will have more dynamics in the midrange. All electrostats, unfortunately, are physically constrained, and it's impossible for them to deliver the same dynamics as quality box speakers. Just listen to Miles Davis blow his horn on a stat vs. a box speaker, as an example. Now, this may not matter to you, but it is a consideration that should be brought up.

Before you pull the trigger, see if you can spend 4, 6, 8 hours with the Wilsons using your amplifiers. If it still feels good, go for it.

PS. What amplifiers will you be using?

Krell KSA 250 is definitely a legendary amplifier. The "Great" Peter Breuninger used to run either this amp, or a close sibling, on his MBL 101s. It has a somewhat darkish sonic character. On paper, it seems like a good fit with the pre-silk, metallic tweeter that focal used to make for Wilson.

I know it's a heavy amp, but with you having had the cls for so long, you will likely keep the sashas for a long, long time. So it's worth the hassle to spend as many hours as you can with the Krell driving the sashas.

Good Luck

Not that you can't compare them but you are certainly talking apples and oranges. The ML is ~25 years older than the Wilsons plus the different types of technologies. A better/more fair match would be against the ML CLX.

Bass below ~40Hz goes to the Wilsons.
Dynamics - overwhelmingly Wilsons
Detail retrieval /clarity - Wilsons

Buttery - smooth mid range (if you like that sort of sound) - MLs

apogee said:

Thank you ceasar for the input and i too beleive that it would be a very good match
but will i hear a 15000$ difference??
I am woudering if changing my dac (ead dsp7000 ) would make a better improvement??
Will try soon

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Hi Apogee, sorry for a late reply, I was away for holidays...

To me, it's kind of hard to place a dollar amount on a subjective experience. Maybe I should have spent more or less on my vacation, but the memories of the experience will last forever.

For some people, it may be obscene to consider a $15K audio upgrade, but my take is that life is too short not to follow your passions. Personally, I regret not doing more of things I really enjoy. And I think most people who are into this hobby make sure that their families get what they need and want first, and frequently neglect things that could make their lives better. Audio is a luxury, but you deserve it - go for it!

As for the EAD, I have heard these DACs in modern $100K+ systems, and the EAD is quite good. It's known as a "musical" sounding DAC, and guys who swear by them, will tell you it will take at least $8K used to get something as good. My sense is that if you really like the Wilsons, you should get them. Once you save more money, get a new DAC. (A possible intermediate step between the Wilson and a new DAC could be newer, better power conditioning for your EAD, as that could make a LARGE difference. Power conditioning has really improved over the last 5-10 years.)

Good Luck!

Personally the CLS does what it does better than any speaker I ever heard. (I am talking about the original)
While I appreciate the Wilsons I never got the Watt puppy mystique. The entire Wilson line is 9verated and over priced.
The Watt/Puppy and its' clones enjoyed widespread acceptance.
If you exclusively use Krell it is unlikely you have experienced what the CLS can do.
It is however,unlikely you will regret the Sasha especially if you can find It used.

apogee said:

I am a proud owner of a pair of martin logan cls II and enjoying them
but i am looking for a pair of wilson audio sasha to replace my cls
i have heard them several time and realy enjoyed them
my question is are they realy better than the cls
thank you


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imho, it would be like taking a giant step backwards. maybe find a dealer who will let you try the sasha at home first. they tend to add a lot of unnatural mid-bass to all types of music (although you can minimize by placement) so you may not like them. especially if you are use to listening to any higher end ML design. try before you buy if you can.

sbo6 said:

Not that you can't compare them but you are certainly talking apples and oranges. The ML is ~25 years older than the Wilsons plus the different types of technologies. A better/more fair match would be against the ML CLX.

Bass below ~40Hz goes to the Wilsons.
Dynamics - overwhelmingly Wilsons
Detail retrieval /clarity - Wilsons

Buttery - smooth mid range (if you like that sort of sound) - MLs

Click to expand...

technology while nice does not always equate to better sound. better measurements, yes. better sound? not always.

Just to add my 50cts worth;

Wilson and ML??? that's the most ridiculous comparison on our planet! This is black and white / night and day, these two systems cannot be compared at all mate.

Wilson's are dynamic driver designs (probably the best ever produced) but there are other brands that can do just as good for relatively far less spend. Magico, Rockport, Gryphon, Genesis and similar mega buck stuff belong in this category and Wilson's are one that have been around for quite a while and know their stuff. Cabinet design, internal bracing, rigidness and stiffness of drivers are like no other, plus weight! No point pumping iron in the gym, you need a bloody forklift to transport these things.

There is currently a pair of Shasa's going for 10 grand in Melbourne, belonged to a previous dealer for ARC and SF. Had a listen to them, although quite good driven with ARC amps (Ref150 SE) soundwise not my preference after having lived with stats for so long. Colour black with gold spikes, looks stunning with the piano black finish but not as stunning as that granite colour, oh very nice...

ML stats, whether hybrid or full range have been bettered along the way in every model produced. I did have the CLS IIz back in tropical land, it was the most coherent stat I've ever had. Bass was not that great, agreed but it could do tuneful and musical bass that was good enough to my liking, although I would have preferred a bit more low end punch. The CLS didn't last too long in the tropics, same issues with my older Quads, hence moved onto Maggies, which lasted longer but required frequent ribbon tweeter replacements due to high humidity- we're talking around the 90% region, and after the heavy rains this goes up to 95%, you just sweat buckets even trying to change the tweeter, and forget about biasing 16 output tubes per channel unless close to the fridge! Being naked doesn't help either...

Comparing the CLX Art- I am very passionate about these stats, as they are the best I have heard to date! ML's new masterpiece series is certainly a force to admire, I am sure they are well capable of all the superlative traits of internal bracing and cabinet rigidness, being far heavier than the Reserve line. Not only that, they also include ARC (anthem room correction) and DSP in their line up, so this is where that critical integration of panel to driver will be a perfect match. I am already getting a taste of that in the Ethos and I don't see nor hear any shortfalls in integration whatsoever (ML has come a long way in this regard, and they take it very seriously).

I am not sure what you have finally decided on but all I can say is I hope you are addressing the sonic factors that you are looking for?
What is lacking with the CLS? Are you not satisfied of certain things it can't do? In which case what areas? Once you have identified these areas of sound then matching a so called "better" component will allow you to accomplish those areas that were lacking. Therefore, you should really be heading in the direction of stats, since you are familiar with this sound and design, and manufactured from one of the most respectable stat specialist- ML!

If you are trying to fill these "in-adequate" areas of the CLS with dynamic driver types, I am afraid that is not the right direction, as this is a completely different type/kind of design altogether! Once you get the Shasa's, later on you will realise their faults and want to "better" that sound, and then the vicious cycle begins and our dealer folks and brands love your extra spend! Obviously there is no ultimate and true end to this madness. There will always be better along the way.

I have learned along the way, that at one point we will get very very old and our ears will fall off. Plus the wax build up will make no speaker cable nor any maga buck interconnect sound best, even if it was made from diamond material from another planet. I would prefer to just enjoy what I've got for as long as possible having all senses in working out with a good hair cut and less wax as possible- after all there is better transparency when you clean your ears...

Cheers mate and trust you make a wise move to YOUR specs, and that your ears will be the ultimate judge. Don't do any final purchases without a proper listen in the right set up. Also as one member stated, if you are/were using a Krell with the CLS, yes he's probably right, you have not heard what the CLS can really do with a Krell.
At the time I was using a CJ Premier 11A and Manley 350 reference series (built by VTL)- wow wee indeed!

The Krell may actually suit the Shasa's better though, as it will drive it better producing an effortless sort of dynamic affect that you were not experiencing on the CLS's, just my thoughts...

Have a good one, RJ