Balanced Phono Stage with at least two inputs

RadioRoy · Dec 4, 2016

I am looking to upgrade my phono stage, and since I own a Boulder 865 integrated amplifier, I'd like the phono stage to be fully balanced. My Bergmann Galder turntable has right now just one tonearm, but I'll be getting another one next year.

I've narrowed the alternatives down to four phono stages, and would like to know if anyone here has compared any of them, since living in Norway the chance of getting a demo is hard.

Dynamic Sounds Associates (DSA) Phono II
ASR Basis Exclusive High Voltage
Boulder 1008
Burmester 100

All of them have balanced in- and outputs and at least two inputs. At least here in Norway the ASR is the cheapest, while the Burmester is the most expensive, but I'd like to stay in that price range, if any of you has other suggestions that match my demands.

Roy

rsorren1 · Dec 4, 2016

RadioRoy said:
I am looking to upgrade my phono stage, and since I own a Boulder 865 integrated amplifier, I'd like the phono stage to be fully balanced. My Bergmann Galder turntable has right now just one tonearm, but I'll be getting another one next year.

I've narrowed the alternatives down to four phono stages, and would like to know if anyone here has compared any of them, since living in Norway the chance of getting a demo is hard.

Dynamic Sounds Associates (DSA) Phono II
ASR Basis Exclusive High Voltage
Boulder 1008
Burmester 100

All of them have balanced in- and outputs and at least two inputs. At least here in Norway the ASR is the cheapest, while the Burmester is the most expensive, but I'd like to stay in that price range, if any of you has other suggestions that match my demands.

Roy

Roy, I've heard one of the phono stages on your list, the Boulder 1008. I heard it at a local dealer with a top of the line Linn TT, arm, cartridge, through an Audio Research Ref system and Wilson Alexia speakers. The overall presentation was impressive with jazz and classical tracks. Everything Boulder builds is excellent.

I think you might add one phono stage to your list: CH Precision P1. It meets all of your requirements. I felt it outperformed all phono stages that I've heard. It has two MC inputs that are current source amplifiers and work especially well with low impedance MC cartridges. Worth a look. There is a review of the four configurations possible with the P1 on Mono And Stereo website that just came out. Excellent review. I'm building an analog front-end based on a P1/X1. Good luck.

asiufy · Dec 4, 2016

I don't know if you want to stick with european brands, but D'Agostino has a phono stage that matches your requirements, and exceeds them

http://dandagostino.com/products-momentum-phono.php

RadioRoy · Dec 4, 2016

I'm afraid both your suggestions are out of my budget. The ones I mentioned will be around 10-15k US dollars.

That said, I really like the CH Precision. Can't stand the look of the other, though...

Roy

dan31 · Dec 4, 2016

Boulder 1008. Problem solved.

Altanpsx · Dec 5, 2016

Excepte dsa, I used asr and burmester, and tried boulder. I highly recommend burmester in this group. Others are very strong contenders, but burmester in an other level. Sonic performance, versatility are exceptional. Background noise is zero, it is a dead silent machine, which i did not experienced in my system with asr and boulder.

RadioRoy · Dec 5, 2016

Altanpsx said:
Excepte dsa, I used asr and burmester, and tried boulder. I highly recommend burmester in this group. Others are very strong contenders, but burmester in an other level. Sonic performance, versatility are exceptional. Background noise is zero, it is a dead silent machine, which i did not experienced in my system with asr and boulder.

That was very interesting. Always good with recommendations from people who have tried several of the phono stages listed.
I've heard some say that you should have an all-Burmester set-up to get the best out of the Burmester 100, so may I ask what the rest of your set-up consists of (amp, speakers, turntable, arm, pu)?

How would you describe the sound of Burmester vs. Boulder and ASR except for the background noise?

Roy

Altanpsx · Dec 5, 2016

First time i tried burmester and boulder, i had a asr emitter 2 exclusive, asr basis exclusive, rockport avior, dr. feickert blackbird, clearaudio master refernce, many tonearms and cartridges. Burmester was far better. With Asr basis, i heart raido interference in high volumes(not while playing). Boulder was not bad about this, but burmester was dead silent, u may hear while you are playing it backgorund nosie level is very very low also. Asr plays like Asr, not ss not tube something between. Do everything right in every frequency range but it lacks many things, when u hear something like burmester. Boulder was better then asr, it play very strong, detailed, but imho i prefer asr delicacy. Burmester plays analog like digital(in a good way). Micro, macro details, pinpoint images, very good dynamics i ilke it all.

Second time i tried, i had a full ypsilon stack with af2 turntable, many cartridges, different tonearms again. At this time Ypsilon phono stage proved it is the best(i tried many different phono stages). Burmester was not the second best, because there were other strong competitors, but believe me it did a great job.

Hard to explain how a component sound, and i believe wrong to do it. It is so system dependent, listener dependent, room dependent ...etc. Best advice, try in your system.

RadioRoy · Dec 5, 2016

Altanpsx said:
First time i tried burmester and boulder, i had a asr emitter 2 exclusive, asr basis exclusive, rockport avior, dr. feickert blackbird, clearaudio master refernce, many tonearms and cartridges. Burmester was far better. With Asr basis, i heart raido interference in high volumes(not while playing). Boulder was not bad about this, but burmester was dead silent, u may hear while you are playing it backgorund nosie level is very very low also. Asr plays like Asr, not ss not tube something between. Do everything right in every frequency range but it lacks many things, when u hear something like burmester. Boulder was better then asr, it play very strong, detailed, but imho i prefer asr delicacy. Burmester plays analog like digital(in a good way). Micro, macro details, pinpoint images, very good dynamics i ilke it all.

Second time i tried, i had a full ypsilon stack with af2 turntable, many cartridges, different tonearms again. At this time Ypsilon phono stage proved it is the best(i tried many different phono stages). Burmester was not the second best, because there were other strong competitors, but believe me it did a great job.

Hard to explain how a component sound, and i believe wrong to do it. It is so system dependent, listener dependent, room dependent ...etc. Best advice, try in your system.

I've had the pleasure to try the Ypsilon-amps you've got, but not the phono stage. I'll see if there's a possibility to try the Burmester at home. Could be tricky, since the norwegian distributor doesn't have it stocked.

Roy

RadioRoy · Dec 5, 2016

I think I might get the ASR Basis Exclusive for a demo at home, a very slim chance of getting the Burmester. I've also asked DSA if they'd like to send me one for me to check out, but the Boulder could be tough, as I don't think the Norwegian distributor will bring one in for demo if he's not sure if someone is going to buy it.

The whole of Norway is just five million people, so the market for high-end hi-fi isn't that big.

Roy

bonzo75 · Dec 5, 2016

RadioRoy said:
I think I might get the ASR Basis Exclusive for a demo at home, a very slim chance of getting the Burmester. I've also asked DSA if they'd like to send me one for me to check out, but the Boulder could be tough, as I don't think the Norwegian distributor will bring one in for demo if he's not sure if someone is going to buy it.

The whole of Norway is just five million people, so the market for high-end hi-fi isn't that big.

Roy

Hi, the ASR Basis is much cheaper used. The Oslo Hifi Center (whom I have visited), have the Burmester 100 and all the people there use it for their own system. I have heard Burmester 100 sound much better than the AR PH9, though this is the lower AR model, and from reports nowhere as good as their references. The Burm 100 was awesome in comparison though. Much more dynamic, bass, way better tone on violin and piano, and large soundstage behind the speakers.

There are reports on this forum (think it was XV-1 who mentioned it) that a couple of his friends switched from Burm 100 and Boulder 1008 to the Thoress tube phono.

You should also compare with some tube phonos, unless you are against. I was in Oslo just the weekend before last

bonzo75 · Dec 5, 2016

Oh btw, my compare was with Bergmann Sindre and a cartridge called Fuga. The preamp was AR LS29, Constellation Inspiration poweramp, and the Sasha IIs.

RadioRoy · Dec 5, 2016

bonzo75 said:
Hi, the ASR Basis is much cheaper used. The Oslo Hifi Center (whom I have visited), have the Burmester 100 and all the people there use it for their own system. I have heard Burmester 100 sound much better than the AR PH9, though this is the lower AR model, and from reports nowhere as good as their references. The Burm 100 was awesome in comparison though. Much more dynamic, bass, way better tone on violin and piano, and large soundstage behind the speakers.

There are reports on this forum (think it was XV-1 who mentioned it) that a couple of his friends switched from Burm 100 and Boulder 1008 to the Thoress tube phono.

You should also compare with some tube phonos, unless you are against. I was in Oslo just the weekend before last

I know you can get the ASR pretty cheap, but there's a new model just released with high voltage-technology that the old ones didn't have. The price has increased by around 40 per cent, too. I know a lot of the guys have the Burmester 100, and maybe I need to borrow one of theirs to hear it in my own system.

I've read about the Thoress, but seems it's single-ended, not balanced. Since my amplifier (Boulder 865) is balanced only, I'd like to keep the signal balanced from pickup to the amp.

Roy

Altanpsx · Dec 6, 2016

Radioroy,

Burmester is better then ASR, there is no need for a comparison. Sonic performance is %30-40 better, versatilty is %100 better you may do it everthing with a remote, gain, load setting, if i am correct curve settings. I listened in my system AR REF2 se and Burmester, Burmester is still much better then AR Ref 2se without a doubt, maybe ar ref10 is in the same league with burmester 100. If u dont have chance to test, buy burmester and dont look back.

ACHiPo · Dec 6, 2016

I was looking at the ASR as well, but ultimately decided on the Wavestream Kinetics. I love the music that it produces. It is a tube unit, so does not have the "blacker than black" background reported of the ASR phono stage.

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Products_Wavestream_Kinetics.htm
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=24124.0

lasercd · Dec 6, 2016

Roy I've used the ASR Basis Exclusiv for a number of years. I think its a strong performer and can easily recommend it (and I'm using an all Boulder system). I did have the Boulder 1008 on loan for about 6 weeks. It was very good but ultimately I preferred the ASR a bit more. I could have comfortably lived with either so I didn't see a need to switch.

I have not heard the Burmester but people who's opinion I respect have heard it and report that its fantastic.

The ASR has tremendous flexibility and I never experienced any of the issues mentioned by other posters. Its dead silent - one of its strongest attributes. Bass is subterranean and the dynamics may well be its best aspect. For the money it can't be beat. I'll be curious to read your comments after you demo it.

Ken Golden

Ron Resnick · Dec 6, 2016

The Aesthetix Io also satisfies your criteria.

RadioRoy · Dec 7, 2016

The Wave Kinetics has got three inputs, but only one balanced.

The Aesthetix IO has only input for both rca and XLR, but you have to choose which one you're going to use, and you can't adjust the RCA- and XLR-inputs separately.

Here's my turntable with arm and pu that needs a new phono stage.

Roy

dan31 · Dec 7, 2016

The Io is at a higher level. Only one phono input standard. Different from the solid state you listed.

RadioRoy · Dec 7, 2016

Couldn't find the price of the IO on the Norwegian distributor's website. But when What Hi-Fi? testet it in 2012 they quoted just below 17000 pounds for it, so I guess it would be out of my price range anyhow.

Here's my listening room (part of my living room, actually). Except for the turntable on top, the rest of the electronics are placed behind the doors.

Balanced Phono Stage with at least two inputs

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