Aurender W20 vs my hot-rodded PC server

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
I've been playing with PC audio for the past 5 years. I've started with a standard CAPS v2 Lagoon server and have ended up with pretty much maxed out CAPS v4 Pipeline server:

- sever MoBo and RAM
- battery PSU for the SSD
- linear ATX PSU
- Jcat Femto USB card
- Jcat SATA cable
- Teddy Pardo PSU for the USB card
- Win Server 2012 OS
- Audiophile Optimizer 2.00
- external music HDD (NAS)

I also have UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1 & JS-2 PSUs, Regen, Jcat (Intona) USB isolator, Wyred Recovery etc.

So I was pretty much covered ... or so I thought.

Yesterday, I brought home the Aurender W20 for the first time and ... it sounds better. Damn. A bit fuller in the midrange. Not a night and day difference, but I prefere it over my server.

Now what ? I will have to start saving up for the W20. Or the N10, if it is really close in performance.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
I know exactly what you mean. The W20 is indeed something else.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Don't forget to check out the Sound Galleries Monaco music server aka SGM 2015. You will be very happy you did. I am:cool:
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Don't forget to check out the Sound Galleries Monaco music server aka SGM 2015. You will be very happy you did. I am:cool:

Hi Hifial,
I know the SGM has been getting great buzz, but have you tried the Aurender by any chance?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Hi Hifial,
I know the SGM has been getting great buzz, but have you tried the Aurender by any chance?

The Aurenda W-20 is a very good bit perfect music server. It has a nice Linux OS, and a customized version of the popular MPD player. Aurenda have also done a good job on their iPad remote app.

We have many customers who used to have the W20, but now use the SGM for the following reasons

- Roon for music discovery delivers a very rich and exciting exploration experience

- the large majority of PCM DAC's benefit from the look ahead processing of HQ Player with its A>D artifact detection and elimination and intelligent upsampling. We even get positive results with the dCS Vivaldi, and Chord DAVE

- for DSD capable DAC's, HQ Player's PCM > DSD upsampling and conversion routines are streaks ahead of all the competion we have been able to uncover. This takes a lot of CPU power and can not be done on low CPU power servers

- The SGM's dual choke power supply shines through as extremely quiet, even when the AC is coming from an electrically noisy industrial estate in Hong Kong. We have yet to find a AC environment where the W-20's battery power supply gives it an edge over the SGM in blackness and dark background over USB.

- in the test of the SGM and W20 to the MSB IV held in Hong Kong, the software configurations for the SGM were not the best available, so the SGM is now ready for a rematch

The software, operating system and BIOS setting combinations are almost infinite, but we are really honing in on the sweet posts for each top rank DAC, and we tune the software settings to match the system's sonics during the in home installation process
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Hi Hifial,
I know the SGM has been getting great buzz, but have you tried the Aurender by any chance?

I have heard the W20 in a few systems that I am very familiar with and have been impressed with its "sound". I have also heard the N10. But while it offers a very nice GUI I always found the closed environment a little off putting. I want, need, to have flexibility in what apps I can run, Roon, HQ Player etc. That is one of the reasons I like the SGM 2015. That and its great sound quality.

But hey, both are very good choices. I just find the SGM more to my liking and would suggest to anyone to hear the SGM (and its GUI) before they buy.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,432
681
1,430
What is the opinion as to the best roon server computer, connected via ethernet, NOT usb..?
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
(...) the large majority of PCM DAC's benefit from the look ahead processing of HQ Player with its A>D artifact detection and elimination and intelligent upsampling. We even get positive results with the dCS Vivaldi, and Chord DAVE (...)

This feature looks unusual and insteresting. Meridian MQA claims something similar in the encoding phase. Can you explain it with more detail? Is this a feature of the general HQ Player or proprietary of the SGM?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
This feature looks unusual and insteresting. Meridian MQA claims something similar in the encoding phase. Can you explain it with more detail? Is this a feature of the general HQ Player or proprietary of the SGM?

The look ahead processing is a feature of HQ Player written by Jussi Laako in Finland. HQ Player does the detection and elimination realtime during play back.

MQA does something similar based on the known parameters of the AD converter used for the original recording and this is carried out during the MQA data file creation process. HQ Player does this to every track it plays, realtime, and royalty free. I won't repeat Jussi Laako's comments about the MQA business model.

HQ Player can be run on any powerful enough PC. However not all PC's are equal when it comes to RF noise generated, and the consistency of the timing.

On the SGM team, we became big fans of HQ Player software 30 months ago. We used HQ Player with a Kodi media player front end at Munich 2015 and garnered this review from Michael Lavorgna.

http://www.audiostream.com/content/...-garde-digital-done-right#FQws6TsvxuvSRXkb.97

That was the catalyst to develop and manufacture a no holds barred computer platform to run HQ Player. Built by driven audiophiles, to deliver listen pleasure and goosebumps to fellow audiophiles.

Send me a PM and I can email you a slide deck with more details

The sound quality achieved is dependant on the CPU core speed. Jussi recommends a minimum of 3.6 GHz. The SGM CPU runs at a clock speed of 4.2 GHz. However as you go to faster core speeds, RF noise goes up. If we take a stock PC with a i7 6700 K processor, the sound you get at 4.2 GHz clock speed is noticeably worse than sound at a clock speed of 3.6 GHz. The extreme measure which are taken to get the RF noise under control in the SGM allow the benefit of higher clock speeds to shine through.

The OCXO on connected to the mother board plays a role here as well. The standard crystal has a frequency stability of about 50 parts per million. We have experimented with TCXO's and OCXO's and the best sounding oscillator which is still reasonably priced is a 5 parts per billion OCXO. We could hear the sound quality improvement as we went to more and more stable clocks. We were not sure why, but the effect on the sonics was repeatable, and consistent. Well now we can actually measure a reduction in CPU power consumption as we use more and more stable clocks. The OCXO which we use gives about a 6 percent CPU power reduction.

What I have been told is that CPU's are not precise in their operation, and error checking will often trigger a process to be repeated. A more stable clock for the CPU reduces the error rate.

There are many things which we have done on the hardware power supply side of the SGM which are pretty common practice in high end audio. To apply these same practices to a purely digital device would seem to be inconsequential, but the surprise is that the beneficial effects are of a similar order of magnitude as they are for analog electronics.

Every SGM owner who has replaced the supplied fuse with a Synergistics Research Black has noticed a nice SQ uplift ! That gives you a clue to what we have done on the power supply wiring front.

The price of the SGM is double the initial target price. We ended where we are because we kept on finding improvements that we could not in leave on the workshop table. Doubling the size of the dual chokes in the power supply greatly increased the cost and weight of the SGM, but the depth of the soundstage increased dramatically. The choice was no choice, we had to build the SGM with bigger chokes

Adam,

Apologies for hogging your thread but hope you find this post relevant to your computer audio journey
 
Last edited:

marslo

VIP/Donor
May 2, 2014
953
673
605
64
Poland
Being a happy owner of W20 for several years ( one of the first models with 6TB) I went to Sound Galleries last September for listening session.
My Lampi is 256 fs, first R2R version. Geoffrey Armstrong prepared the setup with T+A 8 Dac , the files were upsampled to 512 fs DSD with HQ Player using Roon.
I was very much impressed by the sound especially transparence, resolution and far from technical very smooth playback.
Now the question arise- was it better than my W20-B7 combo?
The comparo was not side by side and the rest of the setup was different ( altough I know Avantgarde speakers quite well) but I would say that the potential of SGM 2015 is bigger than this one of W20.
If I had no Aurender I would probably go for SGM but the process of copying over 2 TB of files and the price of SGM make the switch questionable.
Moreover last month I am back to sacd played with my La Fontaine and must say that I like very much what I hear.
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Being a happy owner of W20 for several years ( one of the first models with 6TB) I went to Sound Galleries last September for listening session.
My Lampi is 256 fs, first R2R version. Geoffrey Armstrong prepared the setup with T+A 8 Dac , the files were upsampled to 512 fs DSD with HQ Player using Roon.
I was very much impressed by the sound especially transparence, resolution and far from technical very smooth playback.
Now the question arise- was it better than my W20-B7 combo?
The comparo was not side by side and the rest of the setup was different ( altough I know Avantgarde speakers quite well) but I would say that the potential of SGM 2015 is bigger than this one of W20.
If I had no Aurender I would probably go for SGM but the process of copying over 2 TB of files and the price of SGM make the switch questionable.
Moreover last month I am back to sacd played with my La Fontaine and must say that I like very much what I hear.

Hi Marslo,

The sound quality of the B7 with DSD 256 compared to the Golden Gate with superclocks and DSD 512, is not a jump, but a catapult in to another category of sonics.

Superclocks and DSD 512 upgrade for your B7 would be very good too and I believe Lukasz could make you a sonically compelling cost / benefit offer. I have to say I was skeptical about how much better the GG could be than the B7, but I found it to be huge when I finally heard a GG doing DSD 256 this summer. Then this fall, came the superclocks and DSD 512. Audiophilebill jaws dropped when he had his GG upgraded, and we concurred with his observations when we followed suit.

When you hear your SACD's ripped and then upsampled by HQ player from DSD 64 to DSD 512, tears will come to your eyes
 

marslo

VIP/Donor
May 2, 2014
953
673
605
64
Poland
Hi Marslo,

The sound quality of the B7 with DSD 256 compared to the Golden Gate with superclocks and DSD 512, is not a jump, but a catapult in to another category of sonics.

Superclocks and DSD 512 upgrade for your B7 would be very good too and I believe Lukasz could make you a sonically compelling cost / benefit offer. I have to say I was skeptical about how much better the GG could be than the B7, but I found it to be huge when I finally heard a GG doing DSD 256 this summer. Then this fall, came the superclocks and DSD 512. Audiophilebill jaws dropped when he had his GG upgraded, and we concurred with his observations when we followed suit.

When you hear your SACD's ripped and then upsampled by HQ player from DSD 64 to DSD 512, tears will come to your eyes
Hi Ed,

Could be my friend, could be:)
My B7 is right now being upgraded by Lukasz to the newest R2R and DSD version.
Will get it within a few days .
Until now my sacd sounded better than rips from Lampi, of course in standard 64fs.
Also the fact that I listen on everyday basis to 3 sources : files from Lampi, sacd's from La Fontaine player and vinyls from my analog rig gives me different perspective. My reference hires pcm playback is still form La Fontaine as usb DAC, just a bit more transparent than B7.
Every source has its strenghts but also some weaknesses in the same time.
Moreover I use different cables for 3 sources and it influence the final verdict as well.
I try to improve gradually all of them and my last purchase of sh Siltech Ruby Mountain II PC for B7 and unpowerd usb Salamandra cable brought significant leap of SQ.
Cheers
Mariusz
 

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
Well, it seems there is still hope :)

I added the UpTone Audio JS-2 and UltraCap LPS-1 PSU combo to feed my Jcat Femto USB card (it was powered internally by not-so-clean power from the MoBo before) and now my PC server and Aurender W20 are neck to neck. I have been switching back and forth the whole day, and I cannot say I have a preference for one or the other. They are very, very close. I would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

Which is a great sign, as I still have the Core Mode and HQ Player up my sleeve to try (I've been using the Jriver 21 in bitperfect (Bitstreaming) mode playing DSD files vs the Aurender).

But still - if you consider how many boxes I have now (the server itself + 4 (FOUR !) outboard PSUs + Synology 1815plus NAS) - the Aurender W20 is still a great all-in-one solution for those who have the funds and are not into the geek stuff.

Honestly, if you have the money and would rather spend your time listening to music than solving the hardware issues, the Aurender W20 is still way to go.
 

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
Adam, why do you need 2 power supplies for the Femto?
 

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
The Jcat Femto card only needs 5V (single power input). However, the UltraCap LPS-1 PSU that I use to feed it, also needs one itself.

UltraCap LPS-1 is like an outboard voltage regulator of sorts:

http://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1

So the PSU arrangement for the card looks like this:

AC Mains > JS-2 PSU (230VAC to 9VDC) > UltraCap LPS-1 (9VDC to 5VDC) > Jcat Femto USB card

The UltraCap LPS-1 PSU gives you 100% galvanic isolation from the AC mains at all times and ultra-low output impedance over a broad bandwidth. So it is very much like battery, but it is much faster, has less noise and doesn't have to be charged.

I could have used the supplied SMPS brick, but:

1. I hate switch mode PSUs and don't want them anywhere near my system (my system has two decicated lines);
2. I already had the JS-2, so why not.
 
Last edited:

dminches

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
3,409
2,794
1,410
Gotcha. And I guess this is better than just using the JS-2? That's a pretty nice PS itself.
 

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
Correct.
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
890
675
1,155
London, UK
Hi Ed,

Could be my friend, could be:)
My B7 is right now being upgraded by Lukasz to the newest R2R and DSD version.
Will get it within a few days .
Until now my sacd sounded better than rips from Lampi, of course in standard 64fs.
Also the fact that I listen on everyday basis to 3 sources : files from Lampi, sacd's from La Fontaine player and vinyls from my analog rig gives me different perspective. My reference hires pcm playback is still form La Fontaine as usb DAC, just a bit more transparent than B7.
Every source has its strenghts but also some weaknesses in the same time.
Moreover I use different cables for 3 sources and it influence the final verdict as well.
I try to improve gradually all of them and my last purchase of sh Siltech Ruby Mountain II PC for B7 and unpowerd usb Salamandra cable brought significant leap of SQ.
Cheers
Mariusz

Hello Mariusz,
Well, I finally gave in and sold my precious LaFontaine to someone who will treasure it for years to come.
The main reason is that I was seldom using it to play CD/SACDs.

The SGM 2015/T+DAC, after a few tweaks such as data only Sablon USB, ideal footers, balanced output and chosen settings within HQPlayer to match my amps and speakers, is giving me the best sound I've heard from my system. Transparency and soundstage are what sets it apart whilst still maintaining the musicality of LaFontaine.

Once you ge the B7 back try the SGM2015 again and possible compare to the full GG.
There really is something special in upsampling to DSD512.

Next step, removing the T+A volume control from the equation.

Plus, we want to hear more about your progress with the Duo XDs.

Cheers
Blue58
 

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
To give you a better idea what it takes to get to the level of Aurender W-20:







And I that does not show my NAS drive, which should also be included on the pic !
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing