Dartzeel NHB-18NS or ARC Ref 5 se?

Cascais

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Nov 5, 2012
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Can anyone compare these two fine preamps? I am using the Ref 5 se with a Dartzeel NHB 108 power amp but have an opportunity to acquire the NHB-18NS which I would probably have upgraded to new status. Note: I am perfectly satisfied with the Ref 5 se but you know how temptation is.:p
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Go for it. I don't believe you will be dissappointed.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I have no personal experience with the ARC Ref 5 SE; however I live every day with the new dart NHB-18NS preamp and it's is astonishingly good in every way, and the previous unit I owned for 9 years is very very good too.

do it!
 

etunes

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Jan 8, 2012
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Can anyone compare these two fine preamps? I am using the Ref 5 se with a Dartzeel NHB 108 power amp but have an opportunity to acquire the NHB-18NS which I would probably have upgraded to new status. Note: I am perfectly satisfied with the Ref 5 se but you know how temptation is.:p

I've owned both the ARC REF 5,5SE and the older Dart and now the newest version of the NHB-18NS. My amp currently is the Dart 108. I much prefer the Dart and there is great synergy between the Dart pre and amp. Sound wise for me they are very far apart. I find the Dart much less fatiguing and more musical but results may vary.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
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I've owned both the ARC REF 5,5SE and the older Dart and now the newest version of the NHB-18NS. My amp currently is the Dart 108. I much prefer the Dart and there is great synergy between the Dart pre and amp. Sound wise for me they are very far apart. I find the Dart much less fatiguing and more musical but results may vary.
Since there are no reviews yet to my knowledge of the revised NHB-18NS, could you describe the difference you found between the old and new version of that preamp? I am having a problem connecting with Hervé as my emails keep getting kicked back.
 

ashandger

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2013
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I believe Fremer is going to be publishing a review of the revised Dart soon....I think he makes a reference to this in his ARC Ref 6 review. Could be worth sending him a message on his own website. Please let us know if you get any feedback from him on the publishing date.
 

etunes

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2012
64
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Virginia Beach
Since there are no reviews yet to my knowledge of the revised NHB-18NS, could you describe the difference you found between the old and new version of that preamp? I am having a problem connecting with Hervé as my emails keep getting kicked back.

Battery works and is easily switchable for critical listening sessions. Couldn't tell the difference for a long time but it has come into its own and adds another layer of air and finesse . The phono stage is also adjustable and while I haven't heard many stages this one is really good as good or better than anything i've heard. Volume adjustment is not quirky like some of the older units. Sonically it just gets out of the way no longer evaluating gear performance just enjoying music....
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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Portugal
I believe Fremer is going to be publishing a review of the revised Dart soon....I think he makes a reference to this in his ARC Ref 6 review. Could be worth sending him a message on his own website. Please let us know if you get any feedback from him on the publishing date.

Thanks for the information. In his recent review in Stereophile, Fremer describes the ARC Ref 6 as close in performance to his reference NHB-18NS. It's not clear in the review whether he is using the old or new version darTZeel, a problem since the name's the same.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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Battery works and is easily switchable for critical listening sessions. Couldn't tell the difference for a long time but it has come into its own and adds another layer of air and finesse . The phono stage is also adjustable and while I haven't heard many stages this one is really good as good or better than anything i've heard. Volume adjustment is not quirky like some of the older units. Sonically it just gets out of the way no longer evaluating gear performance just enjoying music....

Thanks very much for the reply. Seems as if the difference between the two versions is not stunning but is worthwhile.
 

ashandger

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2013
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Thanks for the information. In his recent review in Stereophile, Fremer describes the ARC Ref 6 as close in performance to his reference NHB-18NS. It's not clear in the review whether he is using the old or new version darTZeel, a problem since the name's the same.

He has had the new version of Dart for many months now so I strongly suspect it's the new version. I am sure he will refer to the ARC Ref 6 in his review of the new version. I recall reading a comment from him somewhere that the new version of Dart was more transparent than the old version.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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I hear from Geneva that the program to convert the old 18NS to the new version specs is now underway in three steps. It isn't cheap but it is good value for money with flexibility.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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I'd say it is a stunning change to my ears. however; it's also somewhat system dependent as far as the degree of perceived change.

My sources who own the new preamplifier confirm your opinion, but I have not listened to it yet.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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Today my NHB-18NS is being shipped to my home near Lisbon thanks to the encouragement received from this thread. The supplier included a pair of BNC Zeel interconnects for between the preamp and NHB 108B which I will try in place of the balanced interconnects presently in that position. If I prefer the Dart to my present ARC Ref 5 SE, which I expect to be the case, I'll use it as is for a while in the old configuration and maybe in the New Year send it to Geneva for surgery.
 

Argonaut

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Jul 30, 2013
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Cascals.....Congratulations on your new Pre amplifier, I do like Dart equipment, however I feel that I should highlight the obvious disparity in RRP between the two units in question, perhaps a comparison with an ARC 40 Anniversary or REF10 might be a somewhat more level playing field than an Ref5 SE, particularly if the latter is sporting factory Sovtek valves ( A number of threads here regarding the regulator 6550 in ARC Ref gear)
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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Portugal
Thanks for the kind words. While considering the move to Dart, I changed the ic between my emm Labs CDp and the Ref 5 se to Kimber Select KS 1136 from the hybrid KS 1126 with astonishing results, sounding like I already had upgraded the preamp. This much improved sound is still in my system so it will be interesting to hear where the 18NS fits in. Of course you're right about the superiority of the Anniversary and Ref 10, even the new Ref 6. But I want to go back to solid state from tubes. One advantage of the 18NS is the built-in phono stage which will make some of my equipment superfluous.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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You must consider this swap with an open mind and be prepared to make some changes in your system to get the best of the Dart system. The two preamplifiers sound very different.
 

Argonaut

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But I want to go back to solid state from tubes. One advantage of the 18NS is the built-in phono stage which will make some of my equipment superfluous.

Quite understand your reasoning Cascals, built in phono being rather persuasive, good luck.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
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Portugal
If the system with the addition of the Dart preamp is not as satisfying as with the Ref 5 SE, I will probably stay with the ARC based system which is very satisfying.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
2
150
Portugal
Quite understand your reasoning Cascals, built in phono being rather persuasive, good luck.

By all accounts it is a very good phono section, comparable to some very expensive stand-alone models. See the comments in Stereophile and 6 Moons.
 

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