Cessaro or Von Schweikert

What is your location?

The qualities for imaging are very room dependent (less with the horns). In fact most speakers would surprise people with their capability for imaging were they in a room that's befitting. We've got at least one member here that has written a book on it and goes to people's place to tune the system, leaving them in awe.

I don't think you'll have an issue with dynamics from any of the aforementioned speakers, as long as you've got a dynamic amp with them. The Cessaro's will easily find this quality using tube amps, but not necessarily required. But I'm sure some will speak up on the subject. The VR-55's seemed dynamic capable when I heard them but unfortunately the associated preamp at least was fighting the subject. I only got to hear some hot recordings showing bass dynamics when I had some time with them (open and semi-private session at a show). But other experiences with Accuton midranges have informed me they've got the talent if you've got the signal.

Hieukm said:

Thanks everyone for their comments, especially jeffrey_t, Leif, Bruce, Jack, Folsom about the equipment and Mike/Lloyd for the booze recommendation.

The reason i shortlisted Cessaro and Von Schweikert was due to their size/weight/suitability for small space as mine room. Thus my preference for the Wagner and VR-55 models than the Alpha/Ultra 9 models.

Next part, i would like the speaker to portraits crazy dynamics/resolution, very deep sound stage and excellent imaging. As my location and time dont allow me to audition these speakers appropriately hence i very much value your opinions and expertise.

P/S: The MM3 is an interesting choice. YG Hailey is not as i have auditioned the YG Camel i found it to be a bit dull.

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Hieukm,

Fair enough, you heard'em and you didn't like'em. That's how it works I've heard the speakers in your OP, and I honestly felt you could do better...
Now given your description above, don't discount the MiniTwos. It's an imaging champ, and the bass module is adjustable, so you can dial them precisely to your room! We had them at last year's RMAF, and due to the awkward room, they were placed almost halfway into the room, and the soundstage was truly "walk-in"!

Now Leif, I'm not going to address your post directly, in respect for the OP's thread. So I'm a dealer and I can't have an opinion, but a manufacturer can? If Steve finds my post offensive, I'll gladly remove it and not voice my opinion anymore.




cheers,
alex

Hieukm said:

Hi Bruce,

I assume you hear the Cessaro from the AE showroom. If so, the sound quality can be better due to other electronics/peripheral in their disposal.

What the VS model that you have heard and the system along with the speakers?

P/S: For Folsom, i located in Vietnam.

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Hieukm, I saw that you did not like the YG Carmels. You heard them and came to a conclusion...which is totally valid for your tastes. However, since you have a specific taste and requirement in mind, do you not feel it to be important that you make every effort to hear ANY possible speaker option in your own room and system?? Therefore, contemplating a high price acquisition such as you are, would absolutely require an in home audition if at all possible...and failing that, a personal audition at a dealer who can aptly demo the speaker that you may be considering. Asiufy came up with some very good suggestions...BUT you apparently have already discounted some of them. No problem there, except your OP would be asking for trouble IF you are going to rely on someone else's taste and thoughts, when you already have a strong idea as to your own. IMHO, you are going to be severely disappointed IF you cannot audition as I have suggested above. Stating that you live in a country that does not offer much in the way of options to audition ( which I believe may be true in Vietnam...but i am not sure of) should not truly deter one- if you are seriously able and willing to drop the kind of money you are contemplating....again IMHO.

We're less than 3 hours away

Hieukm said:

Thanks everyone for their comments, especially jeffrey_t, Leif, Bruce, Jack, Folsom about the equipment and Mike/Lloyd for the booze recommendation.

The reason i shortlisted Cessaro and Von Schweikert was due to their size/weight/suitability for small space as mine room. Thus my preference for the Wagner and VR-55 models than the Alpha/Ultra 9 models.

Next part, i would like the speaker to portraits crazy dynamics/resolution, very deep sound stage and excellent imaging. As my location and time dont allow me to audition these speakers appropriately hence i very much value your opinions and expertise.

P/S: The MM3 is an interesting choice. YG Hailey is not as i have auditioned the YG Camel i found it to be a bit dull.

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Hi Hieukm,

My two cents, having tried to make small rooms work, but having never heard the Wagner nor the VR-55... (sorry).

As to the first (dynamics/resolution): I think both those things are achievable in a small room but only up to a certain SPL. Once the threshold is reached beyond moderate listening levels the room will begin to fight back, ultimately deteriorating the quality of the desired result. As long as you don’t plan on listening loud, both should be fine, the caveat being how well your amplifier/speaker is able to portray those things at moderate levels.

As to the second and third (deep soundstage and excellent imaging), I think your room dimensions prove more problematic. Horns can work fine against walls, but depending on the drivers and how they’re loaded they often require greater listener-to-speaker distance in order for the drivers to combine acoustical outputs in an equivalent manner. That may or may not be achievable in your room with the Wagner. The problem with sticking horns into the corner is that their dispersion characteristics tend to be compromised and exacerbate certain frequencies (the same is of course true for any speaker), and with a back-loaded design like the Wagner you’ll need to employ a way of controlling for the omni-directional nature of its horn mouth as it goes lower in frequency. That may be possible to minimise with effective room treatment, but the Wagner’s design may prove too problematic, and a sealed dynamic solution may be better.

Having said that, depth is mostly a factor of room size and speaker placement. It’s really difficult to achieve unless you have a greater degree of freedom to experiment with placement and/or treatment. I’ve previously had to discount a great many worthy contenders simply because the result would have been too compromised by the dimensions of the room and the acoustical characteristics of the speaker’s design.

Of all the options you’re considering, a sealed two-way (or three-way) is likely to be least problematic, bearing in mind the VR-55 is rear ported and also has a rear-firing ribbon - although I understand both the active lower frequencies and ribbon are user adjustable.

Good luck, keep us posted.

And give JackD201 a call...!

Hieukm said:

Hi Bruce,

I assume you hear the Cessaro from the AE showroom. If so, the sound quality can be better due to other electronics/peripheral in their disposal.

What the VS model that you have heard and the system along with the speakers?

P/S: For Folsom, i located in Vietnam.

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Yes they were two private Homes in the US.

System A was VR9SE's driven by VAC Electronics--Digital Only no Analogue--this gentleman is a member here

System B was the earlier VR versions driven by Sheng Ya Mono blocks--both Digital and LP was sourced--this gentleman is a Dagogo Reviewer

Both were admirable with their presentation and would be happy with either--but yes Chris's AE setup would shame nearly any other Performance out there

Good luck with your quest.

BruceD-

BruceD said:

Yes they were two private Homes in the US.

System A was VR9SE's driven by VAC Electronics--Digital Only no Analogue--this gentleman is a member here

System B was the earlier VR versions driven by Sheng Ya Mono blocks--both Digital and LP was sourced--this gentleman is a Dagogo Reviewer

Both were admirable with their presentation and would be happy with either--but yes Chris's AE setup would shame nearly any other Performance out there

Good luck with your quest.

BruceD-

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It shows everyone has different tastes. My friends and I have listened to Cessaro in AE showroom in separate occasions. And we all came to the same conclusion: disappointed. Just say, I prefer other speakers.

asiufy said:

Hieukm,

Now Leif, I'm not going to address your post directly, in respect for the OP's thread. So I'm a dealer and I can't have an opinion, but a manufacturer can? If Steve finds my post offensive, I'll gladly remove it and not voice my opinion anymore.

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Certainly, you can have opinions. But the point is that they are hardly neutral. Since you are not dealer of VSA, how much time did you spend listening to VR55 in optimised conditions? I do not think Leif claims that VR55 is superior to YG or Evolution Acoustics. But you seems to imply that the other way round.

adyc said:

Certainly, you can have opinions. But the point is that they are hardly neutral. Since you are not dealer of VSA, how much time did you spend listening to VR55 in optimised conditions? I do not think Leif claims that VR55 is superior to YG or Evolution Acoustics. But you seems to imply that the other way round.

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Hi adyc,

There's a big disclaimer right below my posts, so people can see where my opinions are coming from. As a dealer, I've heard many, many products, and only some eventually end up in my signature.

I didn't imply anything, I just offered a suggestion that there might be other products, even cheaper products, that might be more suitable to the OP's goals. That is no different than what I do in the store. People walk in, they tell me they have X, they're considering Y and Z, and we present them A, B, C. And from there, it's up to them to decide.

Of course Leif thinks his product is superior to everything else, as he should, otherwise why would he bother? We're not dealing with statements of fact, just suggestions and opinions here.

cheers,
Alex

adyc said:

Certainly, you can have opinions. But the point is that they are hardly neutral. Since you are not dealer of VSA, how much time did you spend listening to VR55 in optimised conditions? I do not think Leif claims that VR55 is superior to YG or Evolution Acoustics. But you seems to imply that the other way round.

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You are absolutely correct. I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better than YG, Evolution Acoustics, or the Cessaro. I was just shocked that the original poster was asking Cessaro or Von Schweikert, and this thread has turned into an Evolution Acoustics feeding frenzy by the owner/manufacturer, dealers, and "supporters." I wouldn't of said any of this if this was the first time this has happened. In stark contrast, you don't see brands like Wilson and Magico being pushed in this thread by dealers or the manufacturers.

I highly recommend that the OP listen to the brands he is considering for his purchase or get unbiased opinions from people who are not industry affiliated which I believe is the purpose of this forum.

Leif S said:

You are absolutely correct. I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better than YG, Evolution Acoustics, or the Cessaro. I was just shocked that the original poster was asking Cessaro or Von Schweikert, and this thread has turned into an Evolution Acoustics feeding frenzy by the owner/manufacturer, dealers, and "supporters." I wouldn't of said any of this if this was the first time this has happened. In stark contrast, you don't see brands like Wilson and Magico being pushed in this thread by dealers or the manufacturers.

I highly recommend that the OP listen to the brands he is considering for his purchase or get unbiased opinions from people who are not industry affiliated which I believe is the purpose of this forum.

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A feeding frenzy? Really? You appear to be exaggerating.

Someone not affiliated with my company at all recommends to the original poster that he consider Evolution Acoustics loudspeakers. You don't like it and all of a sudden there's some great conspiracy happening. In audio forums, these things happen organically.

Leif S said:

You are absolutely correct. I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better than YG, Evolution Acoustics, or the Cessaro. I was just shocked that the original poster was asking Cessaro or Von Schweikert, and this thread has turned into an Evolution Acoustics feeding frenzy by the owner/manufacturer, dealers, and "supporters." I wouldn't of said any of this if this was the first time this has happened. In stark contrast, you don't see brands like Wilson and Magico being pushed in this thread by dealers or the manufacturers.

I highly recommend that the OP listen to the brands he is considering for his purchase or get unbiased opinions from people who are not industry affiliated which I believe is the purpose of this forum.

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I suggest you look at a number of other threads then, including one where someone associated with your brand actually suggests a product he sells/distributes, while the OP has claimed to be interested in a product *I* sell. Now go and see if I made a fuss about it in that thread, or any other. It is called "free exchange of ideas/opinions", and I value that a lot.

If you're so confident in your "fact", that "anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better..." (which I don't agree at all), why are you afraid of other people suggesting other products in this thread?

asiufy said:

I suggest you look at a number of other threads then, including one where someone associated with your brand actually suggests a product he sells/distributes, while the OP has claimed to be interested in a product *I* sell. Now go and see if I made a fuss about it in that thread, or any other. It is called "free exchange of ideas/opinions", and I value that a lot.

If you're so confident in your "fact", that "anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better..." (which I don't agree at all), why are you afraid of other people suggesting other products in this thread?

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Copy and paste where I said our brand was better

And post the link to the thread as well if you would please

Leif S said:

I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the VSA speakers are better than YG, Evolution Acoustics, or the Cessaro.

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Think he missed that bolded part.

No, I did read it. He clearly stated a fact (to him).

Similarly, I could've said something like:

I have made no opinions or claims as anyone can clearly see that the earth is flat.

See, I stated a fact right there, even though I claim on the first part of the sentence I didn't. And of course, this fact is just as wrong as Leif's.

I certainly don't think Steve started this Site for it to become a pissing contest between Dealers and Manufacturers -I must say I admire the restraint shown by the Gentleman from Von S

in light of the deviation the Thread has taken.

Chill please Gents and allow the original Poster to digest the opinions in a civilised and unbiased manner--appreciated

BruceD

Not making a sound comparison as I haven't heard the VSAs, but the Wagners in a Newport Audio Show hotel room didn't seem out of sorts, so they might work well in a smaller room.

KeithR said:

Not making a sound comparison as I haven't heard the VSAs, but the Wagners in a Newport Audio Show hotel room didn't seem out of sorts, so they might work well in a smaller room.

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Yup I forget about this presentation. High Water Sounds' presentation of the smaller Cessaro's is outstanding, every year at THE SHOW.