Apple Just Told The World It Has no idea who the Mac is for

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
I'm sure it won't stop some Apple nerds from getting one... but it's a valid point, seems a little silly. It's not even in a useful spot IMO.
 

Keith_W

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2012
1,024
95
970
Melbourne, Australia
www.whatsbestforum.com
This is a picture of the keyboard of the 2014 Thinkpad X1 Carbon. I own one of these machines:

lenoTHINKcarbon_2.jpg

... as you can see, it has the exact same touch bar as the new Macbook Pro - only that Lenovo implemented theirs with backlit LCD rather than OLED.

I HATE IT. In fact, lots of X1 owners hated it. The complaints poured in to Lenovo, so the 2015 X1 Carbon got rid of the touch bar and went back to normal function keys.

So I was rather bemused when this is the supposed signature feature of the new Macbooks. Oh, just you wait ... before long you'll be screaming for the function keys to come back. In fact, I was reading the comments of one IT manager who manages a fleet of Macbooks that this new implementation will break the usability of the software that they use, so they will be ditching their fleet of a few thousand Macbooks and switching to Thinkpad. A number of people could not understand why he required hard function keys instead of soft ones, and he gave this example - his wife is an accountant, and she needs the numeric keypad. I am sure most of us can't remember the last time we used the numeric keypad - put me in a keyboard without one, and I won't miss it. But for her, not having a numeric keypad will slow her down considerably and make her less productive. Same goes for function keys for some people.

That's the problem with Macs. If my PC vendor of choice released a dud product, I would just go buy a product from another vendor. Not so with Macs - if they decide to get rid of the Esc key, and you nee the Esc key ... you are stuck with nowhere no move, except to leave the ecosystem.
 

still-one

VIP/Donor
Aug 6, 2012
1,633
150
1,220
Milford, Michigan
This is a picture of the keyboard of the 2014 Thinkpad X1 Carbon. I own one of these machines:

View attachment 29659

... as you can see, it has the exact same touch bar as the new Macbook Pro - only that Lenovo implemented theirs with backlit LCD rather than OLED.

I HATE IT. In fact, lots of X1 owners hated it. The complaints poured in to Lenovo, so the 2015 X1 Carbon got rid of the touch bar and went back to normal function keys.

So I was rather bemused when this is the supposed signature feature of the new Macbooks. Oh, just you wait ... before long you'll be screaming for the function keys to come back. In fact, I was reading the comments of one IT manager who manages a fleet of Macbooks that this new implementation will break the usability of the software that they use, so they will be ditching their fleet of a few thousand Macbooks and switching to Thinkpad. A number of people could not understand why he required hard function keys instead of soft ones, and he gave this example - his wife is an accountant, and she needs the numeric keypad. I am sure most of us can't remember the last time we used the numeric keypad - put me in a keyboard without one, and I won't miss it. But for her, not having a numeric keypad will slow her down considerably and make her less productive. Same goes for function keys for some people.

That's the problem with Macs. If my PC vendor of choice released a dud product, I would just go buy a product from another vendor. Not so with Macs - if they decide to get rid of the Esc key, and you nee the Esc key ... you are stuck with nowhere no move, except to leave the ecosystem.

Now why would that IT manager have to ditch their fleet of Mac's when the TouchPad is an option and future units can be ordered without.
 
Last edited:

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
I prefer to be able to feel the buttons. I don't have to look at them if they're done well, I can feel what I'm doing. Having to look is a pain.

I don't actually understand the trend towards massive touch pads either. My regular sized one gets touched too often by my palms as is! Very annoying. I disable it and use a mouse most of the time.
 

still-one

VIP/Donor
Aug 6, 2012
1,633
150
1,220
Milford, Michigan
I prefer to be able to feel the buttons. I don't have to look at them if they're done well, I can feel what I'm doing. Having to look is a pain.

I don't actually understand the trend towards massive touch pads either. My regular sized one gets touched too often by my palms as is! Very annoying. I disable it and use a mouse most of the time.

I haven't used a mouse in 9 years. Why take my hands off the keyboard?

I don't disagree on the larger trackpads. It's too easy to have your fingers hover above it and initiate unwanted actions.
 
Last edited:

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
I hate trackpads. I love my Logitech MX Performance mouse. It fits my hand, I can rest the weight of my hand on it and not have to worry about inadvertently clicking it, and it is just very comfortable. If I use a trackpad, I have to actively hold my hand up in an arched position and use more effort that a mouse. I NEVER want to be required to raise my hand or arm off the table to touch the screen, That would be torture.

The new ports apple is using is a detraction for me and I have been a mac user since 1995. The new USB port is fine, but taking away all the other ports is NOT OK. Their present "wireless frenzy" is being taken to a very annoying extreme.

The new touch bar is ridiculous. I like to feel discrete buttons.

I am sure Steve Jobs is turing over in his grave. Where's the innovation that used to be Apple's hallmark? The stupid function bar was all they could come up with in the last few years?????
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
I'm a huge Apple fan, and loyal user for many years, but those MacBooks are lame at best. I hope it's just a stop-gap until they can put out something decent next year.

I was looking to replace my 2-year old Retina, but now I don't know. Maybe if the screen is signficantly better than mine, I'll probably just keep mine, mostly because of the lack of ports.

I understand the MacBook (not Pro) not having a variety of ports, it's not supposed to, as it's entry-level and ultra portable. But for a supposedly Pro laptop to have just one kind of port, it's incredibly stupid. To think that just a few years ago, MacBook Pros were champions in this aspect, with lots of connectivity options!
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
3,525
635
1,200
Alex, why would you be looking to replace after ONLY 2 years? Its not like Macs change very much from release to release.

I am perfectly happy with 5 year old Mac portables which all have i5 chips!
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Just when I got over being pissed that they killed the iPod Classic 160 by coming out with an iPhone with comparable memory, they do it without a headphone jack. Now they come up with this weird bar?

Wake up Apple.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
wisnon,

That's how often I usually upgrade my Macs, to get a slightly faster CPU, or a bit more memory, or more HD space... Before, I'd get some of that, plus new, useful features and ports, like the card reader, or HDMI.

Now, I'm not willing to drop all my ports for some slightly faster CPU. As I said, maybe if the screen is dazzling, and much superior to mine, I might upgrade. But either way, reading people's reaction online, I don't remember such an overwhelmingly negative reception to an Apple product in such a long time. The last one that comes to mind is that dreadful round mouse they did for the original iMac... :)
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
3,525
635
1,200
wisnon,

That's how often I usually upgrade my Macs, to get a slightly faster CPU, or a bit more memory, or more HD space... Before, I'd get some of that, plus new, useful features and ports, like the card reader, or HDMI.

Now, I'm not willing to drop all my ports for some slightly faster CPU. As I said, maybe if the screen is dazzling, and much superior to mine, I might upgrade. But either way, reading people's reaction online, I don't remember such an overwhelmingly negative reception to an Apple product in such a long time. The last one that comes to mind is that dreadful round mouse they did for the original iMac... :)

Understood.
 

beaur

Fleetwood Sound
Oct 12, 2011
459
165
950
60
Brooklyn
Following comments from someone whose family owns about 10 laptops and desktops and about the same mumber iPads and iPhones;

While I understand the complaints, most of that is coming from owners who have had Mac's for a very long time. Now loyalty is great but when your market share is around 10% and you are the 4th in sales for laptops you might want to try and appeal to a wider audience. Only time will tell if these laptops will do that.

Bought my first Apple product in 1982 and pretty much had their products continuously since. I've managed not to worry about getting all the latest and greatest. What I like most about both the laptops and desktops is how long I can keep them and they remain useful. Worrying about what comes out every year is for the fanboys. Most companies and even small businesses aren't looking to replace hardware on a yearly cycle anyway. Yes it can be a letdown if you need a new computer and the release isn't as sexy as you like but wait and next year could be it or move on and dump your Nikon gear for Canon while your at it. :)
 

YashN

New Member
Jun 28, 2015
951
5
0
Canada
Alex, why would you be looking to replace after ONLY 2 years? Its not like Macs change very much from release to release.

I am perfectly happy with 5 year old Mac portables which all have i5 chips!

Core 2 Duo for me :p
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Following comments from someone whose family owns about 10 laptops and desktops and about the same mumber iPads and iPhones;

While I understand the complaints, most of that is coming from owners who have had Mac's for a very long time. Now loyalty is great but when your market share is around 10% and you are the 4th in sales for laptops you might want to try and appeal to a wider audience. Only time will tell if these laptops will do that.

Bought my first Apple product in 1982 and pretty much had their products continuously since. I've managed not to worry about getting all the latest and greatest. What I like most about both the laptops and desktops is how long I can keep them and they remain useful. Worrying about what comes out every year is for the fanboys. Most companies and even small businesses aren't looking to replace hardware on a yearly cycle anyway. Yes it can be a letdown if you need a new computer and the release isn't as sexy as you like but wait and next year could be it or move on and dump your Nikon gear for Canon while your at it. :)

I'm using a 2012 retina as I type this. The reason I'm irked is that this old dog is finally getting creaky. It sucks that the logical replacement has less ports and more (IMO) useless doodads and no significant gain in internal memory. While I have a family G desktop, my laptop is my personal hub. That structure really breaks down as they are trying to turn Powerbooks/MBPs into what amounts to glorified Airs.

I've come to hate tablets after a few years. The games have stagnated, the typing sucks, they are awful for your posture and worst of all one ends up wasting so much time with one in hand. So, for me a powerful, flexible laptop is a must. For what Apple charges, that's what they should deliver, like they used to. I've got muscles on my arms dammit, you can keep some grams on. Not everything has to look like a razor blade and be light as paper.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I'm using a 2012 retina as I type this. The reason I'm irked is that this old dog is finally getting creaky. It sucks that the logical replacement has less ports and more (IMO) useless doodads and no significant gain in internal memory. While I have a family G desktop, my laptop is my personal hub. That structure really breaks down as they are trying to turn Powerbooks/MBPs into what amounts to glorified Airs.

I've come to hate tablets after a few years. The games have stagnated, the typing sucks, they are awful for your posture and worst of all one ends up wasting so much time with one in hand. So, for me a powerful, flexible laptop is a must. For what Apple charges, that's what they should deliver, like they used to. I've got muscles on my arms dammit, you can keep some grams on. Not everything has to look like a razor blade and be light as paper.

There is so much a market segment can take before there is a revolt. I did buy a mac Air and like it... I was thinking about a Macbook Pro .. Won't buy the current crop. Expensive and frankly many steps backward... Apple fanboys will find things to love in the removal of essentials peripherals ... Their (fanboys) numbers will dwindle if the company doesn't make better products. There is not much compelling reason to buy Apple anymore even on the phone front, I have to change phone and am agonizing between Samsung S7 Edge, Google Pixel and iPhone 7. Apple is stagnating and resting on its laurel projecting the kind of hubris IBM used to display... The consequences could be drastic.

As for tablets, I have had several iPads and find myself using the current Air model only to read, not much else, while being fully mindful that An Amazon Kindle Voyager is a far better ebook reader..
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
I'm using a 2012 retina as I type this. The reason I'm irked is that this old dog is finally getting creaky. It sucks that the logical replacement has less ports and more (IMO) useless doodads and no significant gain in internal memory. While I have a family G desktop, my laptop is my personal hub. That structure really breaks down as they are trying to turn Powerbooks/MBPs into what amounts to glorified Airs.

I've come to hate tablets after a few years. The games have stagnated, the typing sucks, they are awful for your posture and worst of all one ends up wasting so much time with one in hand. So, for me a powerful, flexible laptop is a must. For what Apple charges, that's what they should deliver, like they used to. I've got muscles on my arms dammit, you can keep some grams on. Not everything has to look like a razor blade and be light as paper.

Well put. It seems Apple is misguided in their "less is more" approach, specially since they all but ditched the actual MacBook Air, and turned their Pro offering into a glorified version of that.

I know Phil Schiller claims this new MBP is selling like crazy, but that's just pent up demand, IMHO. I think they'll get the message soon enough. Unfortunately, knowing Apple's history, I doubt we're getting our ports back...
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing