Is the big rig too good for our own good??

DaveyF · Oct 19, 2016

Is it possible that audio in our homes can be too good for certain types of music??

For instance, I listen to a lot more rock and heavy metal in the car and find it a lot easier to listen to than in my home set up

. I seem to get more enjoyment from this type of music on a less revealing system than I do on my home system....and i have heard this from other listeners as well!! The car system is easier to listen to with this genre of music...why??? Can a system that homogenizes, work better for some types of music??

Anyone else have the same opinion...if so, what do you think this attributes to?
So, is the big rig too good for our own good....well not on music that needs this kind of resolution and transparency, BUT does all music need that???? A few questions here......hmmm.

GaryProtein · Oct 19, 2016

Yes, the curse of the great system is you hear EVERYTHING that's wrong with the music/recording.

A lot of popular music sounds like crap because the recording engineers have less musical knowledge than a five year old.

Well recorded music sounds glorious.

Pop music is often more listenable in the car.

JackD201 · Oct 19, 2016

The dirty word that starts with C is about to raise its head, compression. The general understanding of compression is that it squashes the peaks. Actually the bad part about it is that make up gain brings the noise floor UP after the peaks have been brought down. This is unfortunately a necessity in noisy environments like cars. It is not surprising then that the bulk of recordings from the mid-90s onwards are geared towards this most common denominator. Now does this automatically mean it will sound awful on a big rig? IMO no not really. One just has to be mindful of one's volume setting. While we can crank up good recordings, there is a threshold for overly compressed ones. If one minds the relative noise floor which sounds a whole lot like a pervasive layer of white noise then the loss left is the excitement of peaks.In other words there's hardly any build up or flow to the song and it's just one droning piece like a story with no climax. The unexpected silver lining is that since the market for headphones has increased dramatically and competes with car stereo, producers have begun to move away from heavy compression.

Compression itself as I have said is not a bad thing per se. Just las week my daughter and her ensemble recorded a track in my music room. They were about 20 kids and a guitarist recording themselves with a simple stereo mike with a rear omni. Even in the big rig, which I think qualifies under REALLY big, some judicious use of compression lifted their little Garage Band project.

Rodney Gold · Oct 19, 2016

I think its a lot about not concentrating on the sound , but on the music.
Lesser systems than your carefully crafted big rig have less expectations attached and you are willing to live with compromises , so it concentrates you on the music.
I have equalisation presets in DIRAC that do make badly recorded music sound a bit better , so I can either have it warts and all for the pristine stuff , or thru rose tinted glasses for the less than prefect..best of both worlds, so to speak.

Johnny Vinyl · Oct 19, 2016

Rodney Gold said:
I think its a lot about not concentrating on the sound , but on the music.
Lesser systems than your carefully crafted big rig have less expectations attached and you are willing to live with compromises , so it concentrates you on the music.
I have equalisation presets in DIRAC that do make badly recorded music sound a bit better , so I can either have it warts and all for the pristine stuff , or thru rose tinted glasses for the less than prefect..best of both worlds, so to speak.

Shouldn't that be the reason you play music on any system? If one doesn't then who cares.

treitz3 · Oct 19, 2016

GaryProtein said:
A lot of popular music sounds like crap because the recording engineers have less musical knowledge than a five year old.

Ding, ding, ding.....I believe we have a winner here folks.

Jack nailed the other aspect IMO

Johnny Vinyl said:
Shouldn't that be the reason you play music on any system? If one doesn't then who cares.

Hello and good afternoon to you, John. I hear you on that but there is a big difference IMO between a system that the limitations are accepted (like a car system or clock radio) and a rig that one has spent many years and dollars on over the years to get to a certain point. In the latter, one expects more.

Tom

BlueFox · Oct 19, 2016

DaveyF said:
Is it possible that audio in our homes can be too good for certain types of music??

For instance, I listen to a lot more rock and heavy metal in the car and find it a lot easier to listen to than in my home set up:o. I seem to get more enjoyment from this type of music on a less revealing system than I do on my home system....and i have heard this from other listeners as well!! The car system is easier to listen to with this genre of music...why??? Can a system that homogenizes, work better for some types of music?? Anyone else have the same opinion...if so, what do you think this attributes to?
So, is the big rig too good for our own good....well not on music that needs this kind of resolution and transparency, BUT does all music need that???? A few questions here......hmmm.

I don't have that issue. I love my home system now. Recently, I bought a number of CDs by Type O Negative. I use the car system to evaluate CDs to determine if they are worth ripping to the music server. I liked the new CDs, ripped them, and listened to them on the stereo. I couldn't believe how much better they were on the stereo. It was like different CDs. I would sit there and think, I don't remember this song in the car. Anyway, I find most everything to be better on the stereo; rock, classical, jazz, etc.

Rodney Gold · Oct 19, 2016

the difference is on a lesser system , I swing along with the tunez, on my main rig , I am part of the performance..different experience altogether

Johnny Vinyl · Oct 19, 2016

treitz3 said:
Ding, ding, ding.....I believe we have a winner here folks.

Jack nailed the other aspect IMO

Hello and good afternoon to you, John. I hear you on that but there is a big difference IMO between a system that the limitations are accepted (like a car system or clock radio) and a rig that one has spent many years and dollars on over the years to get to a certain point. In the latter, one expects more.

Tom

Hi Tom and good afternoon to you as well! I certainly agree that we should expect more from our big rigs and we do, but do we stop listening to some music that was badly recorded as a result and only listen in the car or a boombox? I know I don't. My system isn't reserved for only better recordings.

treitz3 · Oct 19, 2016

Same here John but.....and yes, unfortunately there is a "but"......ya' have to admit that the enjoyment as well as the emotional response toward playback gains accolades when the recording is good and it is played back on the system versus a lesser playback method.

There are exceptions with what I will not yearn to listen too on the main rig and we have discussed this before, years ago. Adele's albums would be a perfect example. They simply sound better on the lesser playback method due to the compression and recording techniques. She sounds great flying down the highway at 60mph, windows rolled down. On the main rig.....eh, not so much. I only put her on the main rig when I am vacuuming or on the other side of the house doing household chores, if you know what I mean. Artists like Bob Marley or Mark Knopfler that have "not so desirable recordings" thrown into the mix? Different story. I guess it boils down to how much I like a particular artist.

Tom

GaryProtein · Oct 19, 2016

In my office, with the sounds of the telephone, talking, equipment running, suction, water running, instruments clinking, I use a Symetrix compressor to REDUCE the dynamic range. The music I play is all in the computer and it plays for about four months and then I re-start it. I can't be bothered changing disks during the day and FM radio has become a wasteland in New York. The compressor serves to minimize the differences in volume between CD disks ripped into the computer which can easily be 10 dB. For popular music, jazz and broadway soundtracks it doesn't affect the music very much because the volumes are pretty constant in the individual recordings, but if I didn't use it, when classical pieces came up, which is most of what I play, the pianissimos would be inaudible and the crescendos would scare me, which isn't good when you are doing delicate procedures.

It's one thing to elect to use a compressor or to have a car stereo compress the sound because of road noise. It's another thing for the engineers to decide to compress a recording at the get-go, leaving no option for good sound for the listeners in the peace and quiet of their homes.

NorthStar · Oct 19, 2016

DaveyF said:
Is it possible that audio in our homes can be too good for certain types of music??

For instance, I listen to a lot more rock and heavy metal in the car and find it a lot easier to listen to than in my home set up. I seem to get more enjoyment from this type of music on a less revealing system than I do on my home system....and i have heard this from other listeners as well!! The car system is easier to listen to with this genre of music...why??? Can a system that homogenizes, work better for some types of music?? Anyone else have the same opinion...if so, what do you think this attributes to?
So, is the big rig too good for our own good....well not on music that needs this kind of resolution and transparency, BUT does all music need that???? A few questions here......hmmm.

Hi Davey,

Another creative thread. :b The simple answer to your first question is NO. There are no limits.

I don't listen to crap music, so wherever, whenever music is playing it has to be harmonious with my soul or I just don't float anymore, and floating peacefully above is what I want to experience 100% of all time. Life's just too short for living below the surface. :b
* The car is a moving environment, it's good for Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Crosby-Still-Nash&Young musik...
Home is where the heart is, it's good for Classical, Opera, Chorals, Jazz, Blues, New Age, World...musik.

Lol, that's my view. To be content all the time...24/24, 7/7, 366/366. :b

What floats people's boats in their musical journey is a personal audiophile affair. It's a relationship between the music and the people...a happy relationship, the source of the essence. Nothing's too good, just no way; everything can always get better....hmmm. :b

Johnny Vinyl · Oct 19, 2016

treitz3 said:
Same here John but.....and yes, unfortunately there is a "but"......ya' have to admit that the enjoyment as well as the emotional response toward playback gains accolades when the recording is good and it is played back on the system versus a lesser playback method.

There are exceptions with what I will not yearn to listen too on the main rig and we have discussed this before, years ago. Adele's albums would be a perfect example. They simply sound better on the lesser playback method due to the compression and recording techniques. She sounds great flying down the highway at 60mph, windows rolled down. On the main rig.....eh, not so much. I only put her on the main rig when I am vacuuming or on the other side of the house doing household chores, if you know what I mean. Artists like Bob Marley or Mark Knopfler that have "not so desirable recordings" thrown into the mix? Different story. I guess it boils down to how much I like a particular artist.

Tom

That's very well said Tom! And I agree! There is nothing better than listening to a favourite album that is well recorded and mastered on the big rig. Luckily, like most of us, I have many of those and for that I'm grateful. The Adele, Amy Winehouse, Duffy recordings and some slightly better ones like most of Bruce Springsteen's albums still get play though. The music is just so good I can easily bypass the sound quality.

Johnny Vinyl · Oct 19, 2016

NorthStar said:
Hi Davey,

Another creative thread. :b The simple answer to your first question is NO. There are no limits.

I don't listen to crap music, so wherever, whenever music is playing it has to be harmonious with my soul or I just don't float anymore, and floating peacefully above is what I want to experience 100% of all time. Life's just too short for living below the surface. :b
* The car is a moving environment, it's good for Bob Dylan, Van Morrison, Crosby-Still-Nash&Young musik...
Home is where the heart is, it's good for Classical, Opera, Chorals, Jazz, Blues, New Age, World...musik.

Lol, that's my view. To be content all the time...24/24, 7/7, 366/366. :b

What floats people's boats in their musical journey is a personal audiophile affair. It's a relationship between the music and the people...a happy relationship, the source of the essence. Nothing's too good, just no way; everything can always get better....hmmm. :b

I cannot describe in words how ludicrous your perception of music is. In fact, I cannot understand most of this post.

NorthStar · Oct 19, 2016

I'm just a nobody sir, don't pay attention. Next time I'll keep my opinion to myself. Yeah, I have a ludicrous perception of music.

analog brother · Oct 19, 2016

i agree with the expectations explanation.
big system, one is listening 'critically' and sometimes (a lot) we are listening to specific cables, racks, components etc, and breaking the music down into frequency bands or focused on certain instruments to analyse whether or not we can make any improvements with any potential new tweaks, adjustments, changes, new components, dreams of nos tubes...whatever. listening can become empirical if swapping things in and out. if you are 100% content with the sound, then you also know some music will work all the time and others will work none of the time. recording dependent.

on a lessor, completed system, sometimes you don't think of anything and just enjoy the music. no expectations sometimes brings you epiphanies in all aspects of life. you just don't know when as they (mostly) cannot be manufactured.

GaryProtein · Oct 19, 2016

analog brother said:
i agree with the expectations explanation.
big system, one is listening 'critically' and sometimes (a lot) we are listening to specific cables, racks, components etc, and breaking the music down into frequency bands or focused on certain instruments to analyse whether or not we can make any improvements with any potential new tweaks, adjustments, changes, new components, dreams of nos tubes...whatever. . . .

WOW!

I don't do any of those things when I listen. I did when I was buying things but now I just listen.

analog brother · Oct 19, 2016

exactly.
i am at that (pretty content) stage too, but mostly due to budgetary constraints....
but some people who have access to unlimited funds will continue to be curious and be constantly wanting to evolve in the gear paradigm rather than in the music paradigm.
once you take the gear out of the equation, then the music is all that's left to indulge in. happy listening!

cjf · Oct 19, 2016

I rarely listen super critically these days. I've finally got my rig setup so that I think everything sounds good and I would say that about 50% of the time I am listening to some form of Hair Metal.

I've actually been pretty impressed with how well recorded many of the original releases of these old school metal band albums were. The key here is "the original releases" of the albums. I buy the majority of my music on the Used CD rack in the few stores I have available to me localy left standing who sell Used music.

Even albums I wouldn't have expected to be well recorded like Iron Maiden have regularly shown DR values of at least 12 or better in terms of compression. I saw mention of the band Type O Negative which is one that is very impressive sounding with high DR and a very clean presentation. Bloody Kisses gets played often here

NorthStar · Oct 19, 2016

Some people keep evolving in both worlds; the gear paradigm world and the music paradigm world.
Evolving as exploring deeper; understanding, perfecting, apprentissage (learning to develop a higher musical taste).

Is the big rig too good for our own good??

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