YG Hailey with Luxman M900u, Boulder 2160, Burmester 911 mk3, Plinius

bonzo75

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The first pic is from Acoustic Gallery in Paris where I heard the Tad Evolution 1 floorstanders with the Luxman M900u and the Nagra pre, compared with swapping the Lux for the Viola Symphony, and then the TAD for the YG. Acoustic Gallery also distributes/deals Rockport and Marten. Overall I found him very knowledgeable tallying our experiences.

The other pics are from just outside London, where we have Criterion Auido with Burmester 911mk3, Plinius, and Boulder 2160 (new series), all fed with Burmester 088 pre. He will be getting in the Boulder pre soon. Demo room is a slightly bigger version of a normal living room.
 

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bonzo75

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I had first heard Luxman m800 bridged at Joel’s and compared it directly to Ypsilon Aelius, with a Coincident pre, on Vivid G1s. Then I had no idea about how a Luxman sounds and it was at the bottom of my list of SS amps, with Ypsilon as the running favorite for a higher powered amp. I did hear the Aelius thrice during this period, including this direct compare, and was totally surprised by how easily I liked the Lux more on all factors that mattered to me. Joel has also tried the bridged M800 on Maggie 20.7s, and he has had substantial experience with SS amps, including running the Karan M2000 and the Chord on the Maggies, and he too confirmed my Luxman impressions.

I then checked with other Lux owners, and found that they had either moved from, or preferred it next to powerful valve amps like VAC.

Then Dpod4 on Audioshark too mentioned he had demoed CH precision and other amps, and preferred the M800 bridged on his Maggies. Soundstage hifi rated the M900 as the best amp he had heard, though I have never followed this reviewer before so don't know what that implies.

Now, I am a bit meh about amps. I do get extreme on my choices on dacs and speakers, love some stuff while others I don’t like at all, while on analog I do like a lot of stuff, but on amps I do get a bit meh. So the Lux seemed good enough, but obviously the gearhead in me wanted to tick the boxes.

I had heard good things about Viola, but had never heard one. So I went to Paris to listen to the Viola Symphony, and did a direct shootout. Unfortunately, the Viola disappointed. The Lux was much more organic and full bodied, and real. The Viola was faster and had more extensions at either end, but I found that its speed and dynamism was not as easy as Spectral’s. Seemed forced with the TADs. Compared to the Lux, it was more fatiguing and metallic. Maybe it needs the Viola preamp. As for the bass, in the Lux it can be increased by bridging two blocs. And it is just rock solid and musical.

The distributor mentioned they had done a shootout of his speakers the previous evening – TAD, YG, Rockport, and Marten, and people had preferred the YG. So we moved the YG Hailey into place, just for a brief listen as I was about to leave, and I was amazed. These speakers were like Quads in resolution, midrange, and openness, with more bass and dynamics. Plus they seemed like speakers that would fit into any living room, no special room size or shape required (a big consideration for me). They may not be like giant horns or panels, but hey, they are just place and play, walk around without any room invasion, and yet get a top sound.

Well, almost. These speakers, like highly accurate speakers, can easily start sounding edgy, metallic and like bad digital, if not set up properly. But here the set up has more to do with the electronics and accessories, and less to do with the room.

I checked with Barry2013, whose Kipods and Carmel 1s I have heard before, and he mentioned that Criterion Audio just outside London had a pair. Now, Criterion turned out to be a SS amp goldmine.

Visiting Criterion, I heard the YG Hailey with Burmester pre, and the Plinius, Burmester 911mk3, and Boulder 2160 amps. Both here and in Paris noticed they have much more decay like stat, openness, musicality, and space, and are full instead of lean in the mid bass like some other metal speakers, but the metallic sound here around the edges came probably from an all SS chain, reflective/live room, or power. Criterion is getting a Boulder pre in soon, so maybe I can go with a valve pre and check if that, like Paris, would easy the edge. Otherwise it would be room treatment.

Boulder was the best of the bunch. A 600w class A beast, with a giant special connector that LL21 adopted for his Gryphon. Amazing how it handles space and nuances, inflections in vocals with a continuous flow - so SET+ horn like. And we played it from the cold, while others were warmed up over night. Too expensive, but am a fan.

A single bloc of Lux in a big room made the YG sound a bit bass light (requires subs), while the Boulders and Burmesters seemed to give it sufficient bass, or it could be that the speaker in this smaller room were close to the walls. Either way, bridging Luxmans should fix that problem.

And no, I am unable to provide any opinions on Luxman vs Boulder or Burmester as I heard the Luxman’s in a separate room. Price wise, the Luxman seems a no brainer compared to the others. I have never heard the Accuphase A70. It would be interesting to compare the Lux and the Boulder. Mind you, the Lux does not startle you with the bass and dynamics of the Spectral, or a bass grip, or valve like harmonics. What it does is, it just plays solidly, with a great tone, organic sound, 3d, and it is only when it is taken away and replaced that you realize what you were missing. I can easily see it sounding great on restored Apogees.

Also, money aside, I can’t see an alternative for YG Hailey for a normal living room speaker. Fits right in and sounds great, if matched properly.

There is a distributor in Romania who has Luxman, Accuphase, Vitus, Lamm, and Thrax amps. Analysis Audio and Tune Audio Anima speakers. In short, most of my favorite gear. Unfortunately cannot communicate with him in English easily. Any Romanians around?

ps: About to fall asleep and realize I seem to have jumped through some tenses and made some things unclear. Will respond tomorrow
 

c1ferrari

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Ked,

Thanks for the write-up and sharing your comments. Alex (Alma Music & Audio) had a rig featuring
YG Acoustics loudspeakers which sounded very good. :)
 

asiufy

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The distributor mentioned they had done a shootout of his speakers the previous evening – TAD, YG, Rockport, and Marten, and people had preferred the YG. So we moved the YG Hailey into place, just for a brief listen as I was about to leave, and I was amazed. These speakers were like Quads in resolution, midrange, and openness, with more bass and dynamics. Plus they seemed like speakers that would fit into any living room, no special room size or shape required (a big consideration for me). They may not be like giant horns or panels, but hey, they are just place and play, walk around without any room invasion, and yet get a top sound.

Well, almost. These speakers, like highly accurate speakers, can easily start sounding edgy, metallic and like bad digital, if not set up properly. But here the set up has more to do with the electronics and accessories, and less to do with the room.

Hey Ked,

I've been telling exactly the same thing to people that come to the store, or ask about YG. It's the speed of a good Quad, with more bass and authority. We've even had folks who've owned panels for many years, and when they hear the YGs in the store, they usually end up mentioning that it's the first "normal" cone speaker that they could live with!
Coincidently, Fabio, my business partner had Quads before he eventually bought YGs (and picked them up for distribution in Brazil).

Also, money aside, I can’t see an alternative for YG Hailey for a normal living room speaker. Fits right in and sounds great, if matched properly.

That I also agree. Most people will be fighting the room with their speakers. With the YG, it's a more clear cut game: either your electronics work with it, or it doesn't.

Sam,

You heard the YG Haileys with either the D'Agostino Momentum integrated or the darTZeel CTH-8550 integrated. Both are solid choices on the YGs! I've heard the big Boulders on YGs at shows, and that is indeed a very good match.


cheers,
alex
 

bonzo75

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Hey Ked,

I've been telling exactly the same thing to people that come to the store, or ask about YG. It's the speed of a good Quad, with more bass and authority. We've even had folks who've owned panels for many years, and when they hear the YGs in the store, they usually end up mentioning that it's the first "normal" cone speaker that they could live with!
Coincidently, Fabio, my business partner had Quads before he eventually bought YGs (and picked them up for distribution in Brazil).



That I also agree. Most people will be fighting the room with their speakers. With the YG, it's a more clear cut game: either your electronics work with it, or it doesn't.

Sam,

You heard the YG Haileys with either the D'Agostino Momentum integrated or the darTZeel CTH-8550 integrated. Both are solid choices on the YGs! I've heard the big Boulders on YGs at shows, and that is indeed a very good match.


cheers,
alex

The Dan agostinos were the best amps I have heard driving big Wilsons. Fantastic
 
Last edited:

caesar

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Bonzo,
Great writing! I wonder what you write like when you are fully awake...

I know Luxman has great stuff, but what do you make of their "modest" power ratings?

Also, what is it about the YG that makes it "room-friendly"? A point source is a point source? No?
 

bonzo75

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Bonzo,
Great writing! I wonder what you write like when you are fully awake...

I know Luxman has great stuff, but what do you make of their "modest" power ratings?

Also, what is it about the YG that makes it "room-friendly"? A point source is a point source? No?

Not modest. The m900u is 150w, 12w class A, and bridged is 600w. Doubles down to 2 ohms.

The M800 was full 60w class A, bridged was 240w.

The YG seems to be fine close to the walls, not too much space required like giant cones or panels, and even though big horns can go into the corner they need room size. Speakers like Vivids also need a lot of space from the walls. YGs don't seem to need that. The other small speaker that seemed to be good based on Munich demo was Stenheim Alumine 5. Both are quite expensive though. However both are non-invasive as far as room is concerned.
 

bonzo75

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Bonzo,
Great writing! I wonder what you write like when you are fully awake...

When I am fully awake, I write Lampi...shun mook...apogee...horns
 

853guy

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bonzo75 said:
The distributor mentioned they had done a shootout of his speakers the previous evening – TAD, YG, Rockport, and Marten, and people had preferred the YG. So we moved the YG Hailey into place, just for a brief listen as I was about to leave, and I was amazed. These speakers were like Quads in resolution, midrange, and openness, with more bass and dynamics. Plus they seemed like speakers that would fit into any living room, no special room size or shape required (a big consideration for me). They may not be like giant horns or panels, but hey, they are just place and play, walk around without any room invasion, and yet get a top sound.

Well, almost. These speakers, like highly accurate speakers, can easily start sounding edgy, metallic and like bad digital, if not set up properly. But here the set up has more to do with the electronics and accessories, and less to do with the room.

I checked with Barry2013, whose Kipods and Carmel 1s I have heard before, and he mentioned that Criterion Audio just outside London had a pair. Now, Criterion turned out to be a SS amp goldmine.

Visiting Criterion, I heard the YG Hailey with Burmester pre, and the Plinius, Burmester 911mk3, and Boulder 2160 amps. Both here and in Paris noticed they have much more decay like stat, openness, musicality, and space, and are full instead of lean in the mid bass like some other metal speakers, but the metallic sound here around the edges came probably from an all SS chain, reflective/live room, or power. Criterion is getting a Boulder pre in soon, so maybe I can go with a valve pre and check if that, like Paris, would easy the edge. Otherwise it would be room treatment.

Hey Ked,

I've been telling exactly the same thing to people that come to the store, or ask about YG. It's the speed of a good Quad, with more bass and authority. We've even had folks who've owned panels for many years, and when they hear the YGs in the store, they usually end up mentioning that it's the first "normal" cone speaker that they could live with!
Coincidently, Fabio, my business partner had Quads before he eventually bought YGs (and picked them up for distribution in Brazil).

That I also agree. Most people will be fighting the room with their speakers. With the YG, it's a more clear cut game: either your electronics work with it, or it doesn't.

Hi Bonzo, Hi Asiufy,

I just posted some more thoughts on the Carmel 2's here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?21323-New-Music-High-End-Innovation-Show-in-Brussels-October-15-amp-16-2016&p=417701#post417701
 

bonzo75

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LL21

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Great stuff Bonzo. Big fan of the Boulder 2060 having heard it many years ago and nearly went for it, had I had not found Gryphon. Both are amazing amps. I have certainly heard on good account the 2160 you heard is notably better than the 2060 i heard as well. IMHO an excellent choice...a 'solid' choice if you will pardon the pun!

I have often wondered if the YG later generations would get some of the panel/stat guys. Nice to know it may have in your case.
 

853guy

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Hi nicely written. Which horns do you have, and where did you hear the 12a and 13a? Munich?

Hey Bonzo,

I think possibly I’m in a similar position to you - “in between” systems at the moment. We’re still trying to find the perfect house, so our main system is my Mac streamed to a JBL Go. It’s true. In the meantime I’m trying to go and hear as many options as I can, hence the trip to Brussels on the weekend to hear the Aries Cerat stuff. Time has not been on my side this year, but I have tentative plans for some more trips as work allows. I mention the options we’re considering a few posts earlier here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?21323-New-Music-High-End-Innovation-Show-in-Brussels-October-15-amp-16-2016&p=417568#post417568

The 12a and 13a are replicas made by Tim Gurney in Paris running WE 555's (not the Line Magnetic versions). I’ve been in touch but I just haven’t found the time to connect with him. His blog is here:

https://13audio.com
 

Mdp632

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Hello All,

I just wanted to chime in as a Carmel 2 owner. These are fantastic speakers and in my opinion of course YG is tops for a lot of reasons mentioned here. However, I don't want to get into subjective listening reasons but, I will say objectively a speaker that isn't Voiced is ideal. To me at least you will hear to your entire electronics/upstream in front of the speakers and not the speakers themselves with YG. Voiced speakers you are listening to the Subjective bias of Mr. Wilson and and Mr. Wolfe(Magico) for example.
 

c1ferrari

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Sam, You heard the YG Haileys with either the D'Agostino Momentum integrated or the darTZeel... cheers, alex
You were running D'Agostino gear in the front room that afternoon/evening.
 

bonzo75

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Great stuff Bonzo. Big fan of the Boulder 2060 having heard it many years ago and nearly went for it, had I had not found Gryphon. Both are amazing amps. I have certainly heard on good account the 2160 you heard is notably better than the 2060 i heard as well. IMHO an excellent choice...a 'solid' choice if you will pardon the pun!

I have often wondered if the YG later generations would get some of the panel/stat guys. Nice to know it may have in your case.

It does not sound better than the Apogees, but the Apogees need room size and shape to sound good, this does not. And is non-invasive.

As for the amps, I am almost certainly going to close it at Luxman, given the price to quality, and will choose a valve amp like Ayon Orthos. Some of the UK distributed amps can always be compared locally over the years.
 

bonzo75

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KeithR

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Dallasjustice owned the m900u and YG and now think owns the m900u and the JBL waveguides.

From him:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18741-Jbl-4367&p=394253&viewfull=1#post394253

"I haven't tried toobs. But I've tried the following so far:
Dartzeel 108
Mola Kaluga
Audionet Max
Luxman 700u

My favorite so far is the Luxman. I will soon have the Luxman 900u."

Have to sound better than that Mola Mola stuff he was so excited about before.

I've heard all of those amps and prefer Dart (well, I had a Luxman class A in house, not the new A/B) - but the 108 isn't a match for Hailey. I love YG (and recently heard the Sonja XVs), but they like juice. In tube land, I'd like to hear VTL 450s on them.
 

bonzo75

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Have to sound better than that Mola Mola stuff he was so excited about before.

I've heard all of those amps and prefer Dart (well, I had a Luxman class A in house, not the new A/B) - but the 108 isn't a match for Hailey. I love YG (and recently heard the Sonja XVs), but they like juice. In tube land, I'd like to hear VTL 450s on them.

Did you have the m800? Those in bridged mode sounded great on vivid G1 and from what Joel and dpod4 on the shark have said, on Maggie 20.7
 

KeithR

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Did you have the m800? Those in bridged mode sounded great on vivid G1 and from what Joel and dpod4 on the shark have said, on Maggie 20.7

Just remember that bridging isn't simply doubling power as the impedance changes.

I had the 30 watt Class A amp in house. It wasn't a good match with my former Zu loudspeakers (too warm and creamy), but I feel would work much better tonally with YG (and clearly with Vivid, as I've heard that combo numerous times). The good thing about Luxman is you can see how the load is taxing the amp thanks to the meters. With YG, the highs can be a bit strident with the wrong amp and I feel an amp that has a bit of warmth works best.
 

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