TAS review Berning 211/845 amplifier

microstrip

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Mike Lavigne

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2 years ago I had the Berning 211/845 mono blocks in my room overnight. they are on my very short list of favorite tube amps. quite a linear sound yet sexy and involving. detailed and dynamically alive.

if 60 watts can do all you need it is an amplifier you need to hear if you can swing 70 long.

'most beautiful'? certainly right up there.

not the most powerful 60 tube watts I have heard. it's OTL linage does restrict grip on the speaker. and my speakers are a fairly easy load and quite efficient.
 

Audiocrack

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Would love to hear these amps. In comparison to my 20 watts or so Kondo se amps around 60 watss of the 211/845 Berning amps seems a lot of power. I have always been somewhat afraid of OTL amps because of their reability issues and the damage they can cause to loudspeakers in the absence of a transformer. Are the Berning amps completely reliable?

Mike, how did these Berning amps compare to your Dartzeel amps and were you tempted?
 

bonzo75

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Does anyone have experience with their preamp? There is one person on this forum who owns the ZOTL pre, and another who owns their amps but gave up their preamp for Veloce LS-1. Berning had a pre called microzotl, which linear tube audio is selling for 1k or so, that reviewers are rating as good as anything they have heard.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Would love to hear these amps. In comparison to my 20 watts or so Kondo se amps around 60 watss of the 211/845 Berning amps seems a lot of power. I have always been somewhat afraid of OTL amps because of their reability issues and the damage they can cause to loudspeakers in the absence of a transformer. Are the Berning amps completely reliable?

Mike, how did these Berning amps compare to your Dartzeel amps and were you tempted?

you hear them on music friendly to their design envelope and they are magical. in certain ways they do surpass the big darts......mostly the whole tube 'they are here' thing. likely the most detailed tube amp I have heard. an OTL tube approach is about as pure a sound as is possible to have. not real but sexy as hell. then you hear what they cannot do on larger scale music (in my large room) and reality hits.....they don't do 'you are there' close to as well as the darts.....and I'm a 'you are there' kinda guy. tonality is first rate and they are harmonically very dense and organic.....but no coloration or veiling tubeyness.

at a lower cost I'd love to have them sitting here as my 'tube fling' amps. but at that cost it would be too much.

again; on lots of small scale music they have plenty of power for my 96 db, 6 ohm MM7 main towers. if one has accepted the limitations of limited power tube amps then these should be a must hear amp.

on a horn speaker I cannot imagine a better choice.

the design is quite bullet proof that I can see and the build quality is first rate. I know of Berning amp users that have owned them for years without issues.
 

Audiocrack

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Have you maybe heard the Berning amps at Rick Brown's place in combination with the Tidal Akira loudspeakers?

And with not real you mean - except for the power issue - more beautiful than in life?
 

Mike Lavigne

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Have you maybe heard the Berning amps at Rick Brown's place in combination with the Tidal Akira loudspeakers?

no. but Rich Brown shipped these to Seattle and brought them over and set them up himself in my room so i could try them for a weekend. he wanted to know how they would sound compared to the darts, and to allow me to hear them.

I was impressed; but overall I prefer my darts. these are at the very very top of any list of the best amps. one then has to choose attributes which most appeal to you and your system.
 

Mike Lavigne

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And with not real you mean - except for the power issue - more beautiful than in life?

no.....the beauty is real and right. I mean that they isolate images in a way that does not happen in live music. you 'see' performers in front of you as if they are here in your room better than the darts. however; the whole ambience of the event is not recreated like the darts. so 'they are here' but you are not at the event. I view this as an artifact of tube amplification.....and sexy and fun to hear.....but not as real or preferred by me to being at the actual event......which requires more command over the speaker.....and which the darts do in spades.

I wish I was a more gifted writer and could relate my perceptions better.....trying to interpret my memories.... which are quite vivid and clear. the Berning did make a strong impression.

and this is besides the issue of much more dynamic ease and authority with the darts. which again takes you more down the 'suspension of disbelief' pathway. my preference.

the darts give you all the information and are more out of the way of the music, the Berning imprints more of it's own signature on the presentation. tonality and FR is pretty neutral and even with the Bernings.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Does anyone have experience with their preamp? There is one person on this forum who owns the ZOTL pre, and another who owns their amps but gave up their preamp for Veloce LS-1. Berning had a pre called microzotl, which linear tube audio is selling for 1k or so, that reviewers are rating as good as anything they have heard.

I have not heard the Berning pre.
 

asiufy

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no.....the beauty is real and right. I mean that they isolate images in a way that does not happen in live music. you 'see' performers in front of you as if they are here in your room better than the darts. however; the whole ambience of the event is not recreated like the darts. so 'they are here' but you are not at the event. I view this as an artifact of tube amplification.....and sexy and fun to hear.....but not as real or preferred by me to being at the actual event......which requires more command over the speaker.....and which the darts do in spades.

I wish I was a more gifted writer and could relate my perceptions better.....trying to interpret my memories.... which are quite vivid and clear. the Berning did make a strong impression.

and this is besides the issue of much more dynamic ease and authority with the darts. which again takes you more down the 'suspension of disbelief' pathway. my preference.

the darts give you all the information and are more out of the way of the music, the Berning imprints more of it's own signature on the presentation. tonality and FR is pretty neutral and even with the Bernings.

Mike, don't sell yourself short, your description was spot on! Most tube amps do 3D well, but only for simple stuff, like vocals or two/three instruments at the most. The darTZeel excels at transporting you to the VENUE, with gobs of ambient information, and I believe it's because the darTs have some of the best high frequency extension in the business!

I did hear those Bernings, with the floorstanding Kaiser speakers, and while they are special indeed, I felt the bass was a little loose and uncontrolled. On the same Kaisers, for instance, I thought the Kondo (Audio Note JP) stuff much better.
 

bonzo75

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Mike, don't sell yourself short, your description was spot on! Most tube amps do 3D well, but only for simple stuff, like vocals or two/three instruments at the most. The darTZeel excels at transporting you to the VENUE, with gobs of ambient information, and I believe it's because the darTs have some of the best high frequency extension in the business!

I did hear those Bernings, with the floorstanding Kaiser speakers, and while they are special indeed, I felt the bass was a little loose and uncontrolled. On the same Kaisers, for instance, I thought the Kondo (Audio Note JP) stuff much better.

Comparing a specific brand to a genre is not correct. That can easily be reversed as saying most SS amps do not do tone well, because many don't. There is too much mix and match there.
 

bonzo75

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Fyi, one guy who owned and loved their 30w did not like the quadrature and recommended me the ayon orthos instead.
 

bonzo75

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There is some used Berning stuff for sale in the Uk if anyone's interested.
 

Sablon Audio

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I presently have a pair of Quadratures on loan and would say that many of the comments in the TAS review / Mike's fb above are also true of this model, save for triode 'bloom'. Careful speaker matching (especially impedence) is however critical to get proper grip of bass notes.
 

bonzo75

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I presently have a pair of Quadratures on loan and would say that many of the comments in the TAS review / Mike's fb above are also true of this model, save for triode 'bloom'. Careful speaker matching (especially impedence) is however critical to get proper grip of bass notes.

Would this work on 4 ohm impedance, low sensitivity panels
 

microstrip

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Mike, don't sell yourself short, your description was spot on! Most tube amps do 3D well, but only for simple stuff, like vocals or two/three instruments at the most. The darTZeel excels at transporting you to the VENUE, with gobs of ambient information, and I believe it's because the darTs have some of the best high frequency extension in the business! (...)

I have to disagree on this one. I have no significant experience with the 458, but I own the 108 and have owned the 8550 and the old 18NS. IMHO some (and much more than just a few) tube amplifiers are equal or even better than these two models in recreating a large real 3D image with true ultra low level true cues, with large orchestras and complex music, with plenty of high frequency extension. IMHO we must avoid generalizations using words such as "most" when comparing to our preferred brands.
 

bonzo75

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Jadis might do a lot wrong on paper but it is one of the best gears for listening to classical. If I have a speaker it can drive. The KR and NAT also rock on classical. As long as they are matched correctly
 

Mike Lavigne

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I think one can adjust to what an amplifier does do and enjoy the high points. unless there are obvious issues like weak bass, or clear hardness on peaks, or some other obvious thing......it's not until you hear another amplifier in direct comparison that you get what might be missing or not fully rendered. or the payoff of authority and ease and total high frequency extension. sometimes these are accepted trade-offs, other times it's just not knowing.

and a case can be made that it's better not to know........

and then there is the issue of having enough time to really get to what an amplifier is doing or not doing......get in touch with it's soul. that does not always just jump out at you.
 

vindixon

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Would love to hear these amps. In comparison to my 20 watts or so Kondo se amps around 60 watss of the 211/845 Berning amps seems a lot of power. I have always been somewhat afraid of OTL amps because of their reability issues and the damage they can cause to loudspeakers in the absence of a transformer. Are the Berning amps completely reliable?

Mike, how did these Berning amps compare to your Dartzeel amps and were you tempted?

I have used Berning amps (and Pré amps) for almost 20 years now moving from an EA230 through ZH270 to QuadratureZ. I have never had reliability issues with any of his products. Tube life is 10-20 000 hours. David is a pleasure to work with, he modified one of my ZH 270's for Europe voltage and then back again. He services every product that he has built. I originally bought the EA 230 as it was a great match for the Quad 63's I had then. I've stayed with his amps through Quad 998 and currently Quad 2905 and Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage & Stradivari. His amps have auto bias and the current models can be used with any voltage.
 

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