didn't you hear the Berning at Newport 2 years ago?
your speakers are 89db/6ohm nominal, but not sure the curve though.
TAS review Berning 211/845 amplifier
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didn't you hear the Berning at Newport 2 years ago?
your speakers are 89db/6ohm nominal, but not sure the curve though.
Interesting...Mihalis used to own 4-tower Gryphon Poseidens for years and drove them with Wavac 833 Mk1s and then Mk2s...where as you said, his Poseiden bass towers were self-powered so he was not as focused about how well Wavacs handled major bass demand.
I don't remember. If I did I was not paying attention.
I do not know what is the impedance curve on the Pendragon ribbon panels. But 80 watts of anything may be too few watts. Plus I would be giving up the excess headroom concept that I subscribe to in general.
But someday I certainly would like to try the Berning 211/845s to find out. On my solo vocal and simple acoustic accompaniment stuff I might not need the headroom that Mike L likes in his system for complex classical.
Thank you for the suggestion but at 30 watts per channel I would not even try it for me.
It was the Kaiser Kawero room - thought you and Steve were around the corner from me, can't remember.
You can drive to Ric Brown's place in north SD and hear all the Berning amps on Tidal speakers.
I'd be surprised if this amp (211/845) could handle the Gryphon's. it could not properly handle the MM7's in my room and they are a much more efficient. similar load.
Interesting . . . I am thinking along the same line. But Poseiden is 94dB sensitivity.
the 833's are much more stout (with big bad transformers to control things) than these quasi OTL's.
Thank you, Mike. That is a very interesting data point.
With your mid/treble towers being so efficient why do you think the 211/845s could not do the job? Do you think the amps just couldn't control the 4 eleven inch drivers you have on each side?
of course, the biggest problem for the Berning's was the job that the dart 458 mono blocks do. they set the bar very high....and expose the lack of authority and space from the Berning. the musical flow is lacking when a speaker is only adequately powered without any headroom for the music to breathe.....and give it that 'ease' and 'effortlessness' that we melt into.
and many modestly powered tube amplifiers (matched to relatively efficient speakers in large rooms) would be similarly exposed.
you choose your attributes. too much power is typically the right amount. the enemy of the very good is the excellent.
and I liked what the 211/845 did in my system. but it's more an amp for a 16ohm easy load 100+db efficient horn where it would be the brute amp, and not the wanna-be.
Ron and Mike, I really can't see where the market for this amp is going to be beyond horns or high efficiency designs like my Zus
And at this price, surely gear like the Robert Koda is going to be the more stellar option
I find it fascinating that Dave Berning sold the licence to make the ZOTL gear to Linear Tube Audio whom by all accounts are making better sounding gear at 1/3 the price of Dave's originals, and now he's gone into uber priced gear
It seems like an amp w'out a target audience
And at these prices, being merely "very good" doesn't cut it, gear needs to be exemplary like the Koda 300B based tube amps
And at this price, surely gear like the Robert Koda is going to be the more stellar option
I find it fascinating that Dave Berning sold the licence to make the ZOTL gear to Linear Tube Audio whom by all accounts are making better sounding gear at 1/3 the price of Dave's originals, and now he's gone into uber priced gear
It seems like an amp w'out a target audience
And at these prices, being merely "very good" doesn't cut it, gear needs to be exemplary like the Koda 300B based tube amps
Mihalis shifted from the Poseidon to the Marten 4 towers, and from Wavac to Vitus
+1 on this though the quadratures do a great job on my lightly modified Wilson Benesch ACT
Mike,
Didn't you consider that perhaps the DartZeel preamplfier was not the best drive for the Berning? I have found that several tube amplifers are critical on match and need a tube preamplifier. When I owned the old NH18 I found that is sounded very good on several SS ampilfiers, but was not a good match for ARC, cj or the Atma-sphere MA2 OTL.
IMHO the preamplifier is a critical part of most systems and needs a matching source and amplifier.
on some level I see your point. however; the delta of difference was not subtle in this case. more like.....right<-->not right. and Ricky Brown, the impresario of the Berning product, agreed with me. if he felt that a different pre would have made significant difference we would have said so. he knew my system and contacted me unsolicited and asked to try them in my system. he thought they would work fine with my gear.
the system was essentially a different lesser one with the Berning amps.
if this was a powerful tube amplifier that could move enough air to compete with the dart monos, then synergy might become the story. that was not this.
I think that the Berning 211/845 monos are one of the best tube amps I've heard, and would gladly recommend them as a great choice properly matched to room and speaker. he told me that the most popular pairing for the 211/845 was the AG Trios.
Yes, he went from Wavac 833 MkIIs to Vitus Masterpiece Reference along with switching from Poseidens to (i believe Coltrane 2s) though I heard whispers he is now looking into the Rockport Arrakis which I have discussed offline with him for years.
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