Hi fellows was planning to upgrade my dart Int to the pre/power but heard from some guys here that the power to run the ascendo speakers it is little underpowered though sweet sounding but then I do love power with finesse so have shortlisted the ypsilon aelius 2 or the lamm 1.2 reference please help me choose which should it be.
Ypsilon or Lamm 1.2
- Thread starter jasbirnandra
- Start date
I have a limited experience with lamm, but if you are looking for transparency, delicacy, refinement etc ypsilon is your way to go...
I am biased since many years ago we decided to only carry Lamm for our electronics and dropped all other lines. After nearly 30 years in this business and hearing many, many others we still believe Lamm electronics are the best and most natural sounding equipment that there is, bar none.
david
david
Both of your contenders are highly-regarded. There is no substitute for auditioning each of the contenders yourself, if at all possible.
If you live in the USA perhaps you would be more comfortable with the Lamm, a domestic product.
Devil's advocate - I don't feel either is likely an upgrade over your Dart gear and from Ascendo specs, they don't seem that difficult to drive.
his first post indicates he was looking at the dart separates; NHB-18NS pre and 108 stereo amplifier. then got feedback that the dart stereo 108 'might not' give him the "power with finesse" that he prefers on his ascendo's. so also considering the other 2 brands. would he also add preamps from those other brands? it's a question.
i'll agree with Keith and Frantz that those particular other amplifiers have little if anything to offer in terms of power and authority over the 108 dart on the 91db, 8 ohm Ascendo's. and that he already knows about the darTZeel character. since 5 years ago with the SCNP upgrade the NHB-108 has been quite a bit more authoritative with moderately tough loads.....which 91db, 8 ohm ascendo is not. and as far as finesse, it's right there with anything, anywhere.
and the new NHB-18NS pre brings a level of it's own finesse and dynamic authority as well as a world class phono stage to boot.
I have written several times - we only way to know if the DartZeel NH108b drives a speaker is trying it - except for extreme cases of particular insensitive or awkward impedance. The NH108 is not a 100W preamplifier as often suggested, it is much more powerful - please see the Stereophile measurements. And each NH108 has two monoblock amplifiers with separate overspecified transformers in the package! And yes, you are right, the SCNP makes the difference.
BTW, I do not have any experience with the Ascendo's - but own a NH108b.
In thread which spawned this one, I iterated that since the Ascendo is a bandpass design, that bandpass could be tuned for either efficiency or extension. There is no way we can gather this from the specs so my recommendation was first to try the amps. Just as your VR-9s which were 6ohm 94dB, the sealed midbass required you to bi-amp with a pair of 108 something you didn't need to do with your MM3s, whose bass modules were powered.That may be the case here. Depending on the bandpass tuning, 100wpc may or may not be enough to provide "power and finesse" at the same time. Now I do not have the specs of Herve's amps but what I do know is that the 1.2R was independently tested by Bascom King to double in power up to 2ohms and still has gains down to 1 ohm. Yet, I would still recommend that it be auditioned as in good conscience I could not recommend the 1.2 outright with such limited information. This is not the case with say the M2.2 or your big Dart monos of which I am certain would drive the ascendos with ease regardless of bandpass design decisions.
Thank you all for your valued opinions but the distributor here who deals with dart and Ascendo which he has sold to many is himself not confident of the dynamics of the amp for certain music passages he would rather have me stick with the Int wit 200W rather than Pre Power of 100w. Or go with something more powerful like min 200W and beyond like Dan or ayre mxr.
The most unfortunate thing is I live in India and I cant have access to products to have a demo let alone a home demo with the ascendo.
But yes I sure love the Dart then it has to be the unreachable for me the 458 every body is not blessed like Mike ha ha ha
The most unfortunate thing is I live in India and I cant have access to products to have a demo let alone a home demo with the ascendo.
But yes I sure love the Dart then it has to be the unreachable for me the 458 every body is not blessed like Mike ha ha ha
What he said x 1000
And besides, when faced with a speaker the darTZeel couldn't drive well (big Dynaudios), I chose to keep the amp and change the speakers!
What he said x 1000
And besides, when faced with a speaker the darTZeel couldn't drive well (big Dynaudios), I chose to keep the amp and change the speakers!
This post suggests a comment. The Ascendo's cost is less than one fifth of the price of the Dartzeel combo. Googling them I found that officially the manufacturer suggests a minimum of 370W (program) - I see now it should be a very difficult speaker. Can I ask why insisting on it?
I feel free to ask, as I insist on Soundlab A1's - one very exigent and strict speaker! But the reason is simple - in order to replace them I would need to enter the US 80-100k speaker zone ...
The Ascendo I have are 70000 euros retail and changing them will be pretty tough its easier to change the amp which will be cheaper option until you want to venture into the 100000 euro territory but then i have spent most of the budget on the speaker and trust me they are awesome in SQ and absolutely neutral.
When considering a change, I would also consider the Phaeton integrated from Ypsilon. I personally found it to sound better in some demos than their pre/power combo (with the Aelius). It seem to have plenty of balls as well.
For Lamm, well why not also consider the ML1.1, which is about a 90 watt push/pull tube amp. From personal experience, I think the pure tube Lamm gear sounds significantly better than their hybrid gear and I would choose Ypsilon hybrids over pretty much any other hybrid out there. The ML1.1 should drive the Ascendos just fine as I have heard the Ascendos sound great with 100 watts of triode power from the CAT JL2 signature...another amp worth considering.
For Lamm, well why not also consider the ML1.1, which is about a 90 watt push/pull tube amp. From personal experience, I think the pure tube Lamm gear sounds significantly better than their hybrid gear and I would choose Ypsilon hybrids over pretty much any other hybrid out there. The ML1.1 should drive the Ascendos just fine as I have heard the Ascendos sound great with 100 watts of triode power from the CAT JL2 signature...another amp worth considering.
I preferred the Luxman M800 bridged on all counts over the Ypsilon hybrids in a direct shootout on Vivid G1. The owner Joel might marginally prefer the other way but loves both. The Luxman also drove more effortlessly. Very organic and full bodied. Since you are in India, you can pick them up from Hong Kong at 230v cheap. The M800 has now been discontinued, and you have the M900, which was much better than the Viola Symphony on TADs Evolution 1 floorstanders. You can if you require, stagger your budget to buy another one later to bridge and create monoblocks. One reviewer rated it as the best amp he had heard (maybe hyperbole, just saying). If you check with M800 users, a lot of them have toyed with the "valve or Luxman" question. Extremely well engineered and solid.
My apologies, can you tell me what is the model? I was considering the system F, probably I was wrong.
It is why it is nice to have the equipment briefly listed in the signature.
Looks very interesting. I wouldn't mind testing that against my Absolare Integrated.
Guillaume
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