Aesthetix IO

Hi Ron,

I have been using a Lyra Etna for about 4 years now. I also have a Dynavector XV-1S I haven't installed on my TT for a long time now, a testament to how good the Etna is.

So you know my Etna was installed by myself but fine tuned by Stirling Trayle of http://www.audiosystemsoptimized.com on a visit.

I have been running a Lyra Kleos and Benz Micro Wood on it a long time ago.

Hope this helps,

Dan

Which were the lush tubes, Mullards? Did you try telefunken? Are there any tubes to reduce noise?

bonzo75 said:

Which were the lush tubes, Mullards? Did you try telefunken? Are there any tubes to reduce noise?

Click to expand...

Hi Bonzo,

I don't have noise issues with mine on Aesthetix's tubes but I haven't gone below 0.3mv cartridge with 68db of gain so who knows.

I honestly don't remember of hands which ones were lush to me but I will look it up when I have a chance, I remember I rolled the first an second stage plus the 6SN7 tubes. That was way back in 2010.

Dan

RedSectorA said:

Hi Ron,

I have been using a Lyra Etna for about 4 years now. I also have a Dynavector XV-1S I haven't installed on my TT for a long time now, a testament to how good the Etna is.

So you know my Etna was installed by myself but fine tuned by Stirling Trayle of http://www.audiosystemsoptimized.com on a visit.

I have been running a Lyra Kleos and Benz Micro Wood on it a long time ago.

Hope this helps,

Dan

Click to expand...

Thank you, Dan. I see the Lyra Etna is .56 mV output, not difficult at all for the Io to handle.

By the way, Jim White, in whom I have enormous confidence, reports that audiophiles who listen primarily to classical music tend to prefer the stock Io tubes, and that audiophiles who listen primarily to rock and jazz tend to prefer the vintage tubes. I think Albert Porter has reported the same.

Ron Resnick said:

Thank you, Dan. I see the Lyra Etna is .56 mV output, not difficult at all for the Io to handle.

Click to expand...

Ron,

The Dynavector is harder to handle at 0.30mV and at 68 db gain couldn't detect any noise 3 feet away at listening levels.

Dan

That is very interesting, Dan. With a .30 mV output you could use the 68 dB setting on the Io, and the highest gain setting was not necessary?

Ron Resnick said:

That is very interesting, Dan. With a .30 mV output you could use the 68 dB setting on the Io, and the highest gain setting was not necessary?

Click to expand...

Yes it was enough Ron, limit but enough. I was feeding the IO into an ARC Ref 3 to a pair of Ayre MX-R, all balanced. My speakers are fairly efficient at 91db. I now replaced the ARC with an Ayre KX-R and although I haven't tried it I suspect it would work too.

Dan

Oh, so you had the Io without attenuator controls?

So 68 dB of Io went into the ARC line-stage pre-amp?

Ron, one of the factors that needs to be considered is the efficiency of your speakers. The more Efficient the less hard the amps have to work and vis a vis the Preamp etc. The next issue is the size of the room and how loud you like to listen, if you like to turn it up, the flea powered cartridge is still going to require a very quiet phono stage at higher gain. Typically tubes don’t apply here, and this is the problem that we run into. Many years ago, I had a flea output cartridge...( about 0.2mv) running into my tube phono stage. While it was ok if the music was not turned up and in my small room, the overall dynamic picture and ability of the cartridge never came to the fore. Simply a mismatch that was easily heard once the voltage required by my phono stage was correct....from my higher output cartridge.
I would highly suggest that if you pursue your ZYX cartridge and your IO phono, that you receive return benefits if the cartridge is a mismatch.

I totally appreciate the thought, Davey.

I am going to take all reasonable steps to maximize the chance of the Io being able to handle the .23 mV ZYX.

Does anyone plug their Io into a PS Audio P5 or P10 or a balanced power/isolation transformer like an Equi-Tech or a Torus or a Furman?

Ron,

What Kedar heard at mine was the Allnic via a balanced psu that I designed and built, previously I used a P10, but the balanced is so much better for me. Everything is connected, inc amplifiers, which contributes very much to the low noise floor. The phono stage has it's own dedicated internal balanced isolation transformer, as does all digital equipment.

That is very interesting, Paul. Thank you.

Ron Resnick said:

Oh, so you had the Io without attenuator controls?

So 68 dB of Io went into the ARC line-stage pre-amp?

Click to expand...

Correct, except that I still have it

Ron Resnick said:

Thank you for that report!

At this point I am trying to solve for lowest noise from the gain stages of the Io.

(Yes, Kedar, I have conceded I have to tube "roll.")

Click to expand...

Hi there,

I have had my Io Signature with volume controls and 2 supplies for some time. Starting with Albert Porter's post on Audiogon some years ago ( I think that post evaporated) I began to tube roll my Io from the start.

My unused stock tubes are in a box. I have accumulated mass amounts of vintage small signal tubes to roll. If you are not inclined it is definitely worth the price to pay for a properly matched set for the Io. It is worth the price because the time and culling involved can be massive if you don't have stock to pull from.


I have Telefunken smooth plates up front , I have used Tung sol round plates for the 6Sn7 position but settled on the the red based 5692. For the 6dj8s I use the amperex USN CEP 6922 gold pin. Siemens ECC83 in the front are nice too - they are harder to find. I have a Vaccuum Tube Valley small tube characterizer to check for noise and balance.. that helps. Not many tubes in my testing are balanced. IMO this is less important than noise. Telefunkens last for ever and typically are more balanced than most types.

I'm not even talking about the NOS 12AX7 RCA's ( Mullard origin) and Mullard XF2 El34's in the two supplies.

As to cartridge I use a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum , Lyra Etna SL which are about the same output at .23mV , I have the new Goldfinger Statement and Lyra Atlas too.

While noise is definitely a function of the design , tube quality, gain required,associated room interface , speaker sensitivity , amp input impedance and sensitivity come into play. I have no problems with noise. I run Beveridge electrostatics Directly Driven- no output or step up transformers . Would I notice with horns?.... maybe. My room is largish at about 19'x42'.

You pay the price for a design like this with , I think 22 tubes, in the signal path. The results are stupendous when they work. People ask- why torture yourself? , you can drive a Ferrari or a Lexus - the Ferrari will cost you more and aggravate you more. The Lexus will just get you there in luxury and comfort.. which one can you live with? That is a personal choice.

Have fun be prepared to be frustrated some times... and don't listen to those that say the Io can't run with the best. I have heard it lately against the CH precision and Tenor.. Would I trade-- no ... not enough to make me do so right now. Very different in presentation but the competition certainly does not run away with it - not by a long shot.

Dear Kcin,

Thank you very much for detailing your experience with replacing tubes in the Io. This is all very helpful!

I ordered Telefunken 6922s but I cannot find any 6SN7 Raytheon small bottles or 5692 red base tubes. I will have to keep looking for those.

You also wrote wise words about the general phenomenon of exotic, expensive and aggravating versus ordinary, less expensive and simpler -- but (arguably, I guess) ultimately less satisfying (I have a 360 Spyder).

On which tonearm does the Koetsu RSP ride?

That collection of cartridges reflects, to my ears, a wide range of sonic results. Which cartridge is your favorite -- and why?

Hi Ron,
I can direct you to my source for red based 5692's PM me. I am sure they still have some -I bought another quad for "stock" a short time ago.

The 360 Spyder- wow... nice. My days of classic sports cars are gone for now with family and some other commitments. So I compromised and ordered a 370z NISMO last week for fun until I can redirect my attention when I retire and my kids are out. Less satisfying for certain- I was frustrated with more exotic types in my past as I would spend more time working on them that driving. For me- right now- it is a compromise..... much like audio often is!

Nick

"...On which tonearm does the Koetsu RSP ride?

That collection of cartridges reflects, to my ears, a wide range of sonic results. Which cartridge is your favorite -- and why?"


Hi Ron,

Right now the Lyra Etna SL is kicking a__ .. It is a marvelous cartridge detailed from top to bottom with harmonic character. Not false hyper detail -real depth. It is now, on the Brinkman 12inch. The Koetsu when it plays - goes on the Kuzma- the Koetsu RSP shares the same engine with the stone bodies. The priorities I have are harmonic correctness, quietness and depth of presentation. All these cartridges are able to defer to these priorities. Bass response has been secondary... however I feel I am cracking the code on that with room treatment and the ever dialing in of my dual subs.

The Atlas is explosive... and the GFS is in a box because I travel 2-3 days a week ( I believe it will be a game changer based on my auditions at other audiophiles that have this latest model) ---- and have just finished adding a R2R and outboard repro I designed. I am testing it against the deHavilland now. Too many diversions.


For culling tubes for the Io I use the following:

The Etna SL is the first Lyra I have liked. A lot of people seem to really like that Etna SL!

Reel to reel and outboard repro? Wow!

Which tape deck did you get?