Design a Mac Mini music server

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I'm considering a Mac Mini as a music server. Thinking about the Apogee mini-DAC along with it, connected via FireWire.

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/mini-dac.php

Alternate DAC recommendations would also be welcome.

Could any of the members who actually understand all this stuff tell me what I would need to complete the system? I don't know about Solid State disc storage, how to control it all effectively, and what software I would need to maximize the performance, given the price range of ~$1500 or so.

Thanks for any advice!

Lee
 

slowGEEZR

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Sep 20, 2010
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I'm using a Mac Mini as a music server and think it is a good idea. Since I use USB output, instead of firewire, I use an Ayre QB-9 DAC. This DAC uses asynchronous transfer mode, which from everything I've read, is really good to have if using USB input; I think it really lowers the jitter. The DAC also has some combination of pre and post ringing filtration (Minimum phase, apodizing). The post ringing filtration type is user selectable. I also use Amarra software, in order to bypass the i-Tunes sound engine. Some people, on some systems can't detect any sound difference between Amarra and i-Tunes, but I can on my system. Regardless, i-Tunes currently does not automatically adjust to play different resolution files, while Amarra does. You can use an i-Pod or i-Pad to control your music via the free Remote application. I also use the $4.99 Rowmote application to shut down. Note that the current limitation using this setup (Mac and Ayre), is 24bit/96khz, if that is important to you; it's not to me. Happy hunting!
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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For the Mac Mini, I recommend the Pure Music software for best sound. We did a pretty comprehensive shoot-out between Amarra and Pure Music on the Mac Mini, and Pure Music with read-forward file buffering enabled (this feature not yet available on Amarra) was ahead quite substantially. On a more powerful machine, Amarra may well be better - this is because when Amarra plays, iTunes is also playing but with volume reduced to zero. Pure Music runs with the iTunes interface but iTunes is not playing. The additional overhead taxes the lightweight Mac Mini, and results in better sound with Pure Music.

ps. we used the Weiss DAC202 Firewire DAC for this shootout.
 

slowGEEZR

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Sep 20, 2010
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Thanks for that info, Gary. I was not aware there was this difference in playback techniques between the two software packages. When you say the Pure Music was "ahead quite substantially", what was/were the difference/differences heard? Also, in what way does the additional overhead tax the Mac? I can hear no difference when a monitor is on or off or when every USB port is in use. Are you referring to processing ability? Thanks.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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www.fightingconcepts.com
Perhaps it does 96kHz, but no higher.

Have any of you checked into this:

www.mach2music.com

It's a completely set up and optimized Mac Mini for a dedicated music server.

Lee
 

Phelonious Ponk

New Member
Jun 30, 2010
8,677
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0
Airport Express doesn't exceed Redbook.

I'd personally choosei a DAC with really good optical implementation as a starter, for the galvanic isolation. That will eliminate, in one simple and easy step, 90% of the problems that are meant to be addressed by most server tweaks (software/OS minimization, SS hard drives, etc). The theory is that computer activity generates electrical noise that is carried by the digital cable into your analog system. This cannot happen with optical or wireless. If you have non-Redbook files in your collection, I'd install Pure Music, as OSX requires that you manually re-set those parameters in Audio Midi Setup, then re-boot iTunes. A pain. All the rest of it is concerned with music players delivering exactly the same digital data to exactly the same DAC to exactly the same analog playback system, and somehow sounding audibly different. If you have eliminated the possibility of electrical noise traveling from computer to DAC, and your DAC is designed to sufficiently reduce jitter below audibility at normal listening levels (and this is common in inexpensive DACs), those differences are controversial, at best, scientifically unsound at worst. I'm not saying people aren't hearing differences, but I do question what it is they are hearing.

If I were just starting out in computer-as-source, I wouldn't immediately leap into that expensive and dubious fire. I would load some of my favorite files into the hard drive of that Mac Mini, connect it via optical to a DAC known to have good optical indistinguishable from its other options (Benchmark is one) and then blind A/B to see what I hear compared to my CD transport. From there, I'd buy every tweak (if I bothered with them at all) with a liberal return policy, listen to every one of them blind, and send back everything that didn't earn its keep. And tat advice is worth every dime you paid for it. :)

Tim
 

flez007

Member Sponsor
Aug 31, 2010
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For the Mac Mini, I recommend the Pure Music software for best sound. We did a pretty comprehensive shoot-out between Amarra and Pure Music on the Mac Mini, and Pure Music with read-forward file buffering enabled (this feature not yet available on Amarra) was ahead quite substantially. On a more powerful machine, Amarra may well be better - this is because when Amarra plays, iTunes is also playing but with volume reduced to zero. Pure Music runs with the iTunes interface but iTunes is not playing. The additional overhead taxes the lightweight Mac Mini, and results in better sound with Pure Music.

ps. we used the Weiss DAC202 Firewire DAC for this shootout.

Agreed.. I use an iMac fitted with Pure Music software, then a StelloDac USB/SPDF converter and then to my Reimyo DAC, very close to my Oppo/Nuforce/PC transport.
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
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It is by and large a matter of hardware.
Either it supports a certain bit depth/sample rate or it doesn’t.
No, you won’t find any specs of DAC of the AE on the Apple website.
But everybody says it is limited to 16/48

If it doesn’t the software comes to your ‘rescue’, it resamples to something the hardware do understand otherwise it would be silence.
In case of Win there is a nice dialog allowing to test the properties.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Windows/Win7/SPDIF_Win7.htm

I don’t think OSX has something likewise.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/OSX/OSX.htm
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Steve, I'm sitting here listening to an Ottmar Liebert 96khz track as I type. I'm thinking my Airport Express must handle hi rez files.
Actually not -- at least the original version didn't. iTunes performs format conversion on the fly for anything airport express doesn't handle. Unless the newer version is different, the old one was definitely limited to 16-bit/44.1 KHz. See this review: http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/505apple/index.html. So the fact that it plays, doesn't mean it is playing the original resolution files.

Maybe the new revision does better but I can't find any indication online that it does. Does your DAC show the incoming sampling rate? That would be the best way to verify.
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
2
0
Airport Express doesn't exceed Redbook.

I'd personally choosei a DAC with really good optical implementation as a starter, for the galvanic isolation. That will eliminate, in one simple and easy step, 90% of the problems that are meant to be addressed by most server tweaks (software/OS minimization, SS hard drives, etc). The theory is that computer activity generates electrical noise that is carried by the digital cable into your analog system. This cannot happen with optical or wireless. If you have non-Redbook files in your collection, I'd install Pure Music, as OSX requires that you manually re-set those parameters in Audio Midi Setup, then re-boot iTunes. A pain. All the rest of it is concerned with music players delivering exactly the same digital data to exactly the same DAC to exactly the same analog playback system, and somehow sounding audibly different. If you have eliminated the possibility of electrical noise traveling from computer to DAC, and your DAC is designed to sufficiently reduce jitter below audibility at normal listening levels (and this is common in inexpensive DACs), those differences are controversial, at best, scientifically unsound at worst. I'm not saying people aren't hearing differences, but I do question what it is they are hearing.

If I were just starting out in computer-as-source, I wouldn't immediately leap into that expensive and dubious fire. I would load some of my favorite files into the hard drive of that Mac Mini, connect it via optical to a DAC known to have good optical indistinguishable from its other options (Benchmark is one) and then blind A/B to see what I hear compared to my CD transport. From there, I'd buy every tweak (if I bothered with them at all) with a liberal return policy, listen to every one of them blind, and send back everything that didn't earn its keep. And tat advice is worth every dime you paid for it. :)

Tim
From what I understand if going USB this possibly limits DAC choice to the Ayre as it seems it may be the only one that has true isolation.
Paul Miller and another journalist with HiFi News latest edition provide examples of what the lack of galvanic isolation caused (for both subjective and also jitter measured), this "should" not be a problem for most of the firewire audio products.
This included dCS amongst other USB DACs.
Now this may not affect all, as the other audio equipment in the chain and their grounding implementation also needs to be considered.
However I find it interesting Paul Miller could measure pretty noticable jitter difference between USB when considering a Sony Vaio with and without the power supply connected (10x worse with power supply connected), and again a noticable improvement using a dedicated "server" designed and using a superior PSU along with a better motherboard-earthed desktop.
All this was in the December issue.

Unfortunately it may not just be buy and forget when it comes to USB just yet, but as Amir I feel rightly points out in another thread there is not going to be a long future life for Firewire-IEEE1394.

Maybe the Ayre QB-9 should be the defacto for high quality USB??
One question; does anyone know what the TAS1020B chip has been replaced with in the Ayre so it can do 24/192?
This chip is the sticking point for a few other manufacturers still stuck at 96khz as well, and was from what I understand going to replaced/updated in the QB-9.

Thanks
Orb
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,010
2
0
For the Mac Mini, I recommend the Pure Music software for best sound. We did a pretty comprehensive shoot-out between Amarra and Pure Music on the Mac Mini, and Pure Music with read-forward file buffering enabled (this feature not yet available on Amarra) was ahead quite substantially. On a more powerful machine, Amarra may well be better - this is because when Amarra plays, iTunes is also playing but with volume reduced to zero. Pure Music runs with the iTunes interface but iTunes is not playing. The additional overhead taxes the lightweight Mac Mini, and results in better sound with Pure Music.

ps. we used the Weiss DAC202 Firewire DAC for this shootout.

Interesting and thanks for the heads up, was one of the aspects I wanted info on to how powerful a spec machine is required - in theory I appreciate it should be low but this shows an example of what can possibly affect the decision.
Thanks
Orb
 

vigotone

New Member
Nov 28, 2010
3
0
0
Hello, all. I'm new here (but a veteran over at the SteveHoffman.tv forums). I've just pulled the trigger on a Mac Mini and a 2TB iOmega HD with the intention of FINALLY ripping my thousands of CDs to Apple Lossless and creating a music server at home. With all this talk of DACs, I was wondering... do I need an outboard DAC or can I just connect the Mac Mini to my Denon 4308CI receiver via HDMI? I'm fairly happy with the Denon's audio performance (my DVD-A's and SACD's sound stellar through my Oppo BDP-83 connected via HDMI), so I would think HDMI would be okay for this. Any thoughts?

I plan on using iTunes to play the music, but I'm debating whether to use Front Row to control it, or stream it through Apple TV. Will there be a loss in sound quality if I stream the Apple Lossless files wirelessly through the ATV?

Thanks so much.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Welcome to the forum Vigotone. You certainly do not need to use a DAC to get started. Go ahead and rip a CD and compare playing it from your Mac vs your CD transport. If they sound the same to you, then by all means use that set-up.

That said, HDMI makes a poor transport for audio in most devices. It is optimized more for video than audio. You might then also want to experiment with audio using another digital connection such as Toslink. It just might sound better.

The ultimate solution is a dedicated DAC. Denon makes good gear but at the end of the day, there is so much quality you can get out of a high volume product using $2 DACs (PCM1791A).
 

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