TechDas Air Force One Titanium Upper platter

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I was fortunate to have my friends Bobby and Joe stop by with the AF1 titanium upper platter. I currently own the duralumin and stainless platters. After doing comparisons using the same music for all three I would describe the differences as follows.

Duralumin: warmer mids, some mid bass bloat.

Stainless: deeper more extended bass, leaner mid bass, more extended treble with quite a bit more presence/ambience over the duralumin. Some may say the stainless is more hi-fi/edgy in the treble area. Not necessarily a bad thing for ears 50 years old plus. It also has a more forward presentation compared to duralumin and titanium.

Titanium: it appears to have the best of both worlds...richer/warmer mids with excellent presence/ambience in the treble without any hint of edginess. The bass is not as deep as the stainless but has no mid bass bloat like the duralumin platter along with a noticeably wider soundstage compared to the other two.

So if I had to live with only one platter, it would be titanium. I cannot however justify the cost of admission for the titanium platter. At $12,000+....it's just too expensive for it's incremental improvement in performance.

I do understand why the cost is so high as titanium is very difficult and expensive to machine.

Edit: don't quote me on the price of the titanium platter...all I know...it's more than $10k but less than $20k.
 
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ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I was fortunate to have my friends Bobby and Joe stop by with the AF1 titanium upper platter. I currently own the duralumin and stainless platters. After doing comparisons using the same music for all three I would describe the differences as follows.

Duralumin: warmer mids, some mid bass bloat.

Stainless: deeper more extended bass, leaner mid bass, more extended treble with quite a bit more presence/ambience over the duralumin. Some may say the stainless is more hi-fi/edgy in the treble area. Not necessarily a bad thing for ears 50 years old plus. It also has a more forward presentation compared to duralumin and titanium.

Titanium: it appears to have the best of both worlds...richer/warmer mids with excellent presence/ambience in the treble without any hint of edginess. The bass is not as deep as the stainless but has no mid bass bloat like the duralumin platter along with a noticeably wider soundstage compared to the other two.

So if I had to live with only one platter, it would be titanium. I cannot however justify the cost of admission for the titanium platter. At $12,000+....it's just too expensive for it's incremental improvement in performance.

I do understand why the cost is so high as titanium is very difficult and expensive to machine.

Edit: don't quote me on the price of the titanium platter...all I know...it's more than $10k but less than $20k.

Hi Chris,

If I'm reading this correctly the sound of titanium platter is tilted upwards compared to the stainless is generally lighter sounding with a slightly airier top, is this right? What was the main cartridge used for this comparison?

david
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Hi Chris,

If I'm reading this correctly the sound of titanium platter is tilted upwards compared to the stainless is generally lighter sounding with a slightly airier top, is this right? What was the main cartridge used for this comparison?

david

No...the titanium is tipped up similar to stainless but with less edge/glare than the stainless. The treble is smooth and airy. The mid range is warmer and richer sounding than the stainless. The stainless has the most forward presentation of the three. It seems to me the titanium is probably the best compromise all arounder platter. Too bad it's so costly.


edit: Cart used..Koetsu Coralstone
 
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rockitman

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Did your friend bring along the upgraded center spindle along with the titanium platter? IIRC that also contributed to the smoothness and airyness on the Air Force One Premium.

no...I only used my spindle. Once thing that was different is the thread depth for the titanium platter. My platter removal handles have a plastic/vinyl covering over a portion of the threads. It required me to peel back about a 1/3" of this plastic covering to allow the threads to engage in the titanium platter's deeper threads.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Did your friend bring along the upgraded center spindle along with the titanium platter? IIRC that also contributed to the smoothness and airyness on the Air Force One Premium.

What changed with the spindle Gary? They have upgraded the PS, controller and pulley of the AF-1, it's "slightly" more focused and airier with this upgrade, at least on mine which is an early one but the character of the table remains the same, didn't hear anything about the new spindle though.

david
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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The spindle is tapered as Gary indicated

That would help with centering some older records, generally found tapered spindle more useful with 78's but you also need a matching record weight for it to work properly.

david
 

rockitman

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That would help with centering some older records, generally found tapered spindle more useful with 78's but you also need a matching record weight for it to work properly.

david

I have had little issue with the old af1 spindle fitting the holes. I do have a more common spindle fit problem with my clear audio table though. Me thinks their spindle is thicker than the average.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I have had little issue with the old af1 spindle fitting the holes. I do have a more common spindle fit problem with my clear audio table though. Me thinks their spindle is thicker than the average.

Traditionally the tapered spindle works with a record weight to visually center the record, the taper doesn't do anything by itself maybe they have a new way to make it work with the vacuum systems instead of the record weight? Maybe Gary knows more how it works since he discussed it with Nishikawa San.

david
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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So if you add the titanium upper platter, how close would the upgraded AF1 unit be to the new deluxe unit ? Does the deluxe unit come standard with titanium platter ?

I think the titanium platter will still be an option with the AF1 Premium too as it is now but who knows, nothing's fixed right now. The main difference seems to be in the feet that will have have a pressure sensor and the air filter according to the video. How that plays in the overall sound is yet to be seen, my feeling is a bit of evolution but no revolution, AF-0 is the one to watch for.

david
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Northern NY
I think the titanium platter will still be an option with the AF1 Premium too as it is now but who knows, nothing's fixed right now. The main difference seems to be in the feet that will have have a pressure sensor and the air filter according to the video. How that plays in the overall sound is yet to be seen, my feeling is a bit of evolution but no revolution, AF-0 is the one to watch for.

david

convenience in putting air in and seeing it's pressure is not a motivation for me to spend money and deal with the time, effort and expense of shipping the massive TT chassis back to Japan. Sounds like I will go for the pulley/PS upgrade in due time which only requires me to send in the motor and outboard power supply. That seems to me to make the most sense.
 

The Phantom

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Sep 6, 2012
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And now a word from our sponsor.....

What changed with the spindle Gary? They have upgraded the PS, controller and pulley of the AF-1, it's "slightly" more focused and airier with this upgrade, at least on mine which is an early one but the character of the table remains the same, didn't hear anything about the new spindle though.

david

At the moment, the titanium platter is the supreme upgrade for the current AF-1. Whatever appears on the AF-1 Premium, which is not even in production yet, may have some backwards-compatible offerings for the AF-1. But it's a different product, and even the final price has not been determined.

Any modification of spindle design will, perhaps, find it's way to retrofit for AF-1 customers, just as power supply modifications may also be offered. But for now, (Gary, please take note) any prototype model seen can only be considered as a sneak peek, not current offering. When such items are available, we'll be promoting and advertising it on our upcoming new website...

As for the price of the platter that Rockitman object to, well- that's entirely personal, of course, and we all have our limits. But the facts are there: titanium is an extremely material to purchase, and the bigger the part, the more it costs to buy, even as raw material. Then, it is also one of the most difficult to machine, and has to be done so very slowly, as the tooling parts will wear out almost immediately if normal speeds used with aluminum, brass, even stainless steel, are used. Time is money, so the labor - and replacement tools which are always needed - all add up.

The cost of a thing is relative; if you enjoy the results, then you have to consider your value of money relative to the purchase. I suspect audiophiles would mostly shrug off $10,000 diamonds as unnecessary, but be willing to plunk down a similar amount for new cables and be thrilled with their purchase. There is no doubt that the titanium platter is a major step forward, and if someone is already in the neighborhood of what the AF-1 and similar turntables cost,then one might consider, for them, how much is the pursuit of audio perfection worth? $12,500 for a titanium platter versus $15,000 for a respected phono cartridge or new preamp? It's all the same hobby.....

So, for the record: at the moment, there is NO spindle upgrade for the AF-1 or any of the other models. What appears in later designs, just as in anything (cars, speakers, amplifiers, airplanes, surgery techniques, etc, etc) will trickle down to other models.

Happy trails, and now, back to our program..... Bob Graham
 

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