KR 242, Elrog 300, px4, px25, EML and KR 5u4g, and KR 274b
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
All, I would say the following.
When Rob picked me up at the station, on the way back he mentioned that he had preferred the px4 to the px25. I was skeptical because wasn't px25 supposed to be just like the px4 on steroids?
But no, they are indeed quite different. We started with the px25 and the EML mesh 5u4g recti. I did not think that was dynamic enough, so changed the recti to KR 5u4g. Yet the system did not take off. We then added the Elrog 300b. Immediately, their was a big jump in tone. There was a sparkle around the Oboe, the chorals were projecting out more and decaying better, and the sound was embracing us. As later on we switched rectis, we found that the Solid plate of the 5u4g made it more dynamic, but the mesh plate of the EML 5u4g gave it more air. The air supplemented the air of Elrogs and made them sound better on the vocals. The Elrogs lost nothing on dynamics.
From Elrogs, we moved to the px4. Surprisingly the px4 sounded nothing like the px25. The tone on px4 for excellent. In fact, on the Bach Cello recording from Mike Valentine's Chasing the Dragon CD, the px4 just shot over all the others. It was incredible how much details and variations on the cello were being heard, and how realistic it sounded. It was also the best tube on rock. The later Robert Plant's husky voice from the NO Quarter album (a collaboration between Page and Plant in the 90s), showed that Px4 were doing the huskiness, full bodiness, and the details of the hurdy gurdy and the drums better than all other valves.
Px4 to me sounded best with KR 5u4g, but others preferred it with the EML mesh 5u4g. This is quite a preference thing. I think Elrog should be part of every arsenal if one can afford it, to add the sparkle on some classical pieces, it makes some instruments like oboe, violin, and flute, stand out, but I don't see Elrog as a stock valve. I think, and this seemed unanimous, that px4 was the best valve, apart from being an all rounder.
The 242s did not stand out on the GG like they had done on the Big 7 and at Bill's so I think it is more of a gain play. We will repeat this at Bill's. Funnily enough, at Bill's the KR 5u4g was a better match for 242s than the 274b, here it was the opposite.
The KR 45s, which I did not like at Bill's sounded great in this system.
When Rob picked me up at the station, on the way back he mentioned that he had preferred the px4 to the px25. I was skeptical because wasn't px25 supposed to be just like the px4 on steroids?
But no, they are indeed quite different. We started with the px25 and the EML mesh 5u4g recti. I did not think that was dynamic enough, so changed the recti to KR 5u4g. Yet the system did not take off. We then added the Elrog 300b. Immediately, their was a big jump in tone. There was a sparkle around the Oboe, the chorals were projecting out more and decaying better, and the sound was embracing us. As later on we switched rectis, we found that the Solid plate of the 5u4g made it more dynamic, but the mesh plate of the EML 5u4g gave it more air. The air supplemented the air of Elrogs and made them sound better on the vocals. The Elrogs lost nothing on dynamics.
From Elrogs, we moved to the px4. Surprisingly the px4 sounded nothing like the px25. The tone on px4 for excellent. In fact, on the Bach Cello recording from Mike Valentine's Chasing the Dragon CD, the px4 just shot over all the others. It was incredible how much details and variations on the cello were being heard, and how realistic it sounded. It was also the best tube on rock. The later Robert Plant's husky voice from the NO Quarter album (a collaboration between Page and Plant in the 90s), showed that Px4 were doing the huskiness, full bodiness, and the details of the hurdy gurdy and the drums better than all other valves.
Px4 to me sounded best with KR 5u4g, but others preferred it with the EML mesh 5u4g. This is quite a preference thing. I think Elrog should be part of every arsenal if one can afford it, to add the sparkle on some classical pieces, it makes some instruments like oboe, violin, and flute, stand out, but I don't see Elrog as a stock valve. I think, and this seemed unanimous, that px4 was the best valve, apart from being an all rounder.
The 242s did not stand out on the GG like they had done on the Big 7 and at Bill's so I think it is more of a gain play. We will repeat this at Bill's. Funnily enough, at Bill's the KR 5u4g was a better match for 242s than the 274b, here it was the opposite.
The KR 45s, which I did not like at Bill's sounded great in this system.
The Lampi is just a super exciting product. This is my third year with it and it continues to surprise. Everytime I feel that ok, I know enough about Lampi, it surprises and excites me.
Nothing was upsampled, we played native PCM. Some of us are strong fans of playing native, especially with the R2R PCM, and not letting filters colour sound.
Rob's speakers were sounding excellent. For those who have heard the audio note AN-E, I find these in a similar style of boxed sensitive speakers that can go into corners, be driven by SETs, but less money and better Sonics.
These horns fp-15 were reviewed by Joel from 6 moons and are from the same family as the horns universum which were one of the top speakers in Munich
Nothing was upsampled, we played native PCM. Some of us are strong fans of playing native, especially with the R2R PCM, and not letting filters colour sound.
Rob's speakers were sounding excellent. For those who have heard the audio note AN-E, I find these in a similar style of boxed sensitive speakers that can go into corners, be driven by SETs, but less money and better Sonics.
These horns fp-15 were reviewed by Joel from 6 moons and are from the same family as the horns universum which were one of the top speakers in Munich
Thanks again for a comprehensive report.....as we spoke, it's probably just by sheer chance that I landed with the PX4s and the KR 5u4g recti and I can't begin to extol their virtues. In fact, the only other output tube which I found equally good or perhaps even a wee bit better on overall balance was the eml 45 anniversary GM.
Cheers
Sujay
Like I said, for big 7 there is a different gain, and you might benefit more by 242.
As I posted before ( with pics) , I tried all of them in my B7 - EML 45 GM Lampi Anniv , KR 242 an KR PX 4 with KR 5u4g and I agree with Bonzo findings.
Even for B7 with reduced gain ( I asked Lukasz to do so because of my new speakers ) KR 242 were to agressive. I did not like EML 45 Anniv at all , compared to Psvane 101 D and KR they sounded blurred to me.
PX4 is an excellent all rounder, I heard better vocals with 300 B and more dynamic rock with KR 242 , but for jazz and classical fans is the best stock valve I tried.
Psvane 101 D WE replicas are also good , so I keep them together with KR valves.
One day I would like to try Tak 274 B and see if it's realy so much better than KR 5u4g.
And the selection of valve is very system and taste depending, it's obvious.
In my system 242 were so dynamic that I was tired even after a short listening with reduced volume.
Of course in different system the result may be less evident.
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Hi Ked,
Looking at the pictures, I have a question.
How can you differentiate the "real" difference between the tubes when you have the DACs sitting on the floor with no vibration isolation for the device?
In my system, attenuating vibration makes a massive difference in sound quality. I've had many experiences where I though a piece of hardware was somewhat underwhelming sonically and once properly isolated from vibration, became a much different and much more engaging component.
Best.
Looking at the pictures, I have a question.
How can you differentiate the "real" difference between the tubes when you have the DACs sitting on the floor with no vibration isolation for the device?
In my system, attenuating vibration makes a massive difference in sound quality. I've had many experiences where I though a piece of hardware was somewhat underwhelming sonically and once properly isolated from vibration, became a much different and much more engaging component.
Best.
GG, the ones on the floor are being used to warm up the tubes, which are then being inserted in the dac on the track which is isolated with symposium roller blocks. Of course, you now compel me to say you need to upgrade your isolation to you know what 
Hi Ked,
Very happy with my current setup. No need to upgrade from my perspective.
Michael Green clamp rack with Mapleshade tri-point brass cones below and one cone on the top side to "lock in".
Can see on the ML website if you are curious.
GG
Very happy with my current setup. No need to upgrade from my perspective.
Michael Green clamp rack with Mapleshade tri-point brass cones below and one cone on the top side to "lock in".
Can see on the ML website if you are curious.
GG
I have the latest top spec Golden Gate R2R Balanced with volume control and Gold PCB.
Your comments on the 242 are all regarding single ended listening.
I was advised recently by G-Point to purchase 4xKR242, and the KR5U4G Anniversary for my GG balanced.
The KR242 is supposed to be best for balanced DAC according to Lukasz Lampizator Facebook posting from 26th July.
The KR242 "has the smallest heater current from all DHT tubes so it wont stress the heater PSU."
I currently use fully Active PMC speakers. Though i also feed the GG to a custom Stax transistor head amp/SR007 for headphone listening.
From Lukasz.
To all the users of DHT series DACs: (Lite 7, Big7, Siebener, Golden Gate)
The 242 Tube as such is “compatible” with the circuit and will not damage the DAC and the DAC will not damage the tube.
This concerns all DACs without tube-type toggle switch, and those that have it - in the 101D, 45 position not the 300B or 2A3 position.
HOWEVER the tube 242 is significantly louder than others (also more subjectively dynamic sounding) which may cause:
1. In amplifiers that have analog passive volume control - will require turning them down by two hours
2. Amps having digital or transistor active or opamp active or chip active volume control - may cause saturation and clipping
3. In DACS equipped with volume control will require turning the volume down by 10 dB.
4. Passsive attenuators, transformer volume controls, resistor ladd
ers etc - will just love the increased signals.
If we did not fit the DAC with this tube originally - you are experimenting on your own and don’t be mad at us if you don’t like the result.
Best regards,
LampizatOr Team
What are the recommended quad of tubes for a Balanced version of Golden Gate? and with which rectifier?
It is not clear if you or bonzo75 are referring to a GG single ended or balanced, when you say PX4 is overall the best choice.
Or would results be the same regardless if using 2 tubes/single ended, or a four tube balanced GG?
In what DAC where the 242 the best sounding?, and was it a balanced B7/GG?
242 i assume are likely to better suit when using Solid State power amps rather than tube.
Lukatz/Lampizator recommends a quad of 242's in the Balanced version of Big7/GG.
The KR242 "has the smallest heater current from all DHT tubes so it wont stress the heater PSU."
He just warns you need to turn the volume down due to the higher gain.
His other comments was: "If we did not fit the DAC with this tube originally - you are experimenting
on your own, and don’t be mad at us if you don’t like the result.".
I understand the best rectifier choice is Takatsuki 274B.
However i have the KR5U4G Anniversary edition, so this might equal the Tak 274b.
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Do you mean a balanced or a single ended B7? or does it not matter?
What is recommended quad of tubes for a Balanced version of Golden Gate?
It is not clear if you are referring to a GG single ended or balanced, when you say PX4 is overall the best choice.
242 i assume are likely to better suit when using Solid State power amps rather than tube.
In what DAC where the 242 the best sounding?, and was it a balanced B7/GG?
As i mentioned, Lukatz/Lampizator recommends a quad of 242's in the Balanced version of Big7/GG.
The KR242 "has the smallest heater current from all DHT tubes so it wont stress the heater PSU."
He just warns you need to turn the volume down due to the higher gain.
His other comments was: "If we did not fit the DAC with this tube originally - you are experimenting
on your own, and don’t be mad at us if you don’t like the result.".
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I
I am sorry if that was not clear enough- my Lampi is Big7 single ended with Duelund Cast Pio caps and it plays with SET amp and efficient horn speakers.
For balanced GG it can be different though.
I am sorry if that was not clear enough- my Lampi is Big7 single ended with Duelund Cast Pio caps and it plays with SET amp and efficient horn speakers.
For balanced GG it can be different though.
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