Room Correction vs Room Treatment

stephen_volker

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
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Hi everyone!

I am pretty sure I would MUCH rather do room treatments than room correction software on my system; however, I do not have the funds to hire someone to actually do it for me. I find in our current location that the bass gets boomy. I think this is because I am forced to put the subs of my Pipedream 18 speakers too close to the corners. Would you try room correction software or bass traps? If you do bass traps which do you recommend while keeping budget in mind? Ideally I would love to get someone in and have them do all the calculations of what goes where, get some diffusers for the high frequencies, and proper bass traps. That will probably be 5+ years down the road.

Room information:
14x17
Speakers on Long wall due to bay window and opening to dining room on the two short walls
Plan to put French doors where the opening is by the end of 2017

I look forward to your ideas!

Best regards,
Stephen
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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It is common to need both. Neither is a complete solution alone in the general case, though specific rooms may require less treatment or correction so one or the other may work in some cases.

Deep bass is difficult to correct with treatment or correction; nulls can be very deep and bass traps have limited absorption at very low frequencies unless they are very large or you use a lot of them.

For advice, many of the acoustic companies offer a wealth of information, and will provide free advice based upon a diagram of the room and your objectives. DIY panels are pretty easy to make so the trick is to decide how many and where to place them. Also note diffusion is often preferred at higher frequencies, as it breaks up boundary reflections without as much loss of the sense of "space", but diffusors are harder to make (and more expensive to purchase).

There are companies such as ASC that offer tuned absorbers that may be a better choice for your situation. I am guessing there are a small number of peaks causing the boominess. Peaks are generally amenable to EQ so that may be a cheaper and easier solution in the short term.

I would start by checking out Ethan Winer's site as he has lots of articles and DIY information in addition to selling finished products: www.realtraps.com He is also a member here.

HTH - Don
 
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FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Stephen

While I understand the reluctance to go digital since that is what a software would do it should be repeated that in the bass only digital does wonder and is truly transparent... The reality of room treatment in the bass is size.. Serious size to be effective in the lows. Not to say that room treatment wouldn't help but it will require size and knowledge and those tend not to come cheaply.

I don't know the particular of your Pipedreams but believe they have their own Active crossover. You could try something like a mini DSP and run Dirac or Acourate on it and just for the bass.. You may need to use a software like the free and ridiculously powerful REW with a not so expensive calibrated mike such as the umik for around $100. You are not touching anything above.. The entire contraption, miniDSP with Dirac ( for example the DDRC-24), REW and the microphone is around $550 ...
There are many here that could help you set it up and the results may be beyond what the modest price would led us, audiophiles, to believe.
 

stephen_volker

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Nov 2, 2015
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That sounds like a pretty great solution. As I mentioned, the issue I am clearly identifying is the lows. You are right regarding the towers running an active crossover with the subs. I will look into this option too. If nothing else, I can start with the mic and then move to a combination with room treatments.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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from 1995-2003 I had my listening room in a den which was 18' x 12' x 10.5'. it had a bay window. it was a naturally fantastic sounding room and I think part of that was the bay window which naturally helped the soundstage. I did spend a couple of years putting absorption on the walls at the speaker end. it had French doors on the rear sidewall and bookcases behind my sitting position. I used pleated shades as a tunable acoustic adjustment.

your room is 14 feet wide. I would seriously consider switching to the bay window as your speaker end. with your speakers on the long walls those long walls will dominate the sound. you need more depth.

my 2 cents is to optimize the acoustic possibilities before you throw room correction at it. but that is just me.

the room looks small......but those speakers weighed 560 pounds each and are massive.

r43.jpg

r28.jpg
 
Last edited:

Mike Lavigne

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my stepped ceiling did not hurt. don't forget about dealing with the ceiling in some ways. mine was 10.5' tall and stepped so it's reflective effect was minimal. so I never needed to treat it. however an 8' tall ceiling will be significant.

r42.jpg
 

stephen_volker

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
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That setup is BEAUTIFUL! The unfortunate issue is I would have the opening to the dining room behind the listening area. I have a TV that I use but I would not be object to moving that out of the stereo room. I also have another room that is 11x22 that I have considered switching to as it has no real obstructions. I plan to move my audio rack beside my couch and add french doors to all openings of the room I am currently using. All past rooms I have used the short wall and think I prefer it. Sub placement could be tricky though.

IMG_20160501_203832263_HDR.jpg IMG_20160613_213638857.jpg
 

stephen_volker

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
172
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248
The other room I could take ownership of is below. It needs painted, bad! I just bought the house at the end of April and am a first time home owner so things are going slowly.

Blue room.jpg

Below is a picture of the other wall in my stereo room. Sorry there are so many posts without much content.

wall of current stereo room.jpg
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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aren't Pipedreams a dipole speaker?

if so you need some space behind the speaker and would benefit from a long room depth. and the ceiling won't be much problem. possibly that other room would be most ideal.

my 2 cents would be to just try your speakers firing the long way in the room they are in to test how it sounds. it's a pain to do that for sure but worth it to get a feel for it. or contact Nearfield Acoustics and ask them about it.

Marty here on WBF has Pipedreams and has really optimized them. he might be worth contacting for his perspective.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Looking at your pictures Stephen I suggest you get some help with your setup and speaker placement first then decide if you actually need any room treatment.

david
 

stephen_volker

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
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I have been in contact with him a little. I should have thought to contact him regarding the room setup. I'll reach out to Nearfield Acoustic right now. I have company in until the 16th so the rearranging the room will have to wait a bit. Afterwards I will definitely do that.
 

stephen_volker

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
172
10
248
Looking at your pictures Stephen I suggest you get some help with your setup and speaker placement first then decide if you actually need any room treatment.

david

Yeah, based on what I am reading, the setup / room might be key. My old setup sounded much better but I unfortunately do not have the same room. It was carpeted, a bit larger, slightly higher ceiling, and better for the short wall.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
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995
Utah
Yeah, based on what I am reading, the setup / room might be key. My old setup sounded much better but I unfortunately do not have the same room. It was carpeted, a bit larger, slightly higher ceiling, and better for the short wall.

I'm going by where and how you've positioned your speakers its far from ideal, the room might or might not be as bad as you think but first you have to get the setup right.

david
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I have been in contact with him a little. I should have thought to contact him regarding the room setup. I'll reach out to Nearfield Acoustic right now. I have company in until the 16th so the rearranging the room will have to wait a bit. Afterwards I will definitely do that.

best wishes Stephen on your efforts.

I can tell you that room set-up efforts will be very rewarding in the end but it does get humbling when you look back to see the path. it took me 4-5 years to optimize my previous room, and 10+ years to get my current one right. but I've had lots of fun.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
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Stephen

While I understand the reluctance to go digital since that is what a software would do it should be repeated that in the bass only digital does wonder and is truly transparent... The reality of room treatment in the bass is size.. Serious size to be effective in the lows. Not to say that room treatment wouldn't help but it will require size and knowledge and those tend not to come cheaply.

I don't know the particular of your Pipedreams but believe they have their own Active crossover. You could try something like a mini DSP and run Dirac or Acourate on it and just for the bass.. You may need to use a software like the free and ridiculously powerful REW with a not so expensive calibrated mike such as the umik for around $100. You are not touching anything above.. The entire contraption, miniDSP with Dirac ( for example the DDRC-24), REW and the microphone is around $550 ...
There are many here that could help you set it up and the results may be beyond what the modest price would led us, audiophiles, to believe.


I think this is good advice, it's what I do w/my Scaena subs which share some DNA w/your Pipedreams. I run dirac w/a MiniDSP just for the subs as I don't like RC in most cases anywhere else. i do have some corner bass traps around the room, but. I still find RC to be a plus in the bass and transparent as noted.
 

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