this is what his Zus do, currently.
fwiw, I prefer my CTH-8550 to any SET amp I've owned
Solid state amps that emulate tube amps but don't try to copy them...
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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this is what his Zus do, currently.
fwiw, I prefer my CTH-8550 to any SET amp I've owned
got to be the way to go if mixing tubes and solid state. otherwise you just end up with a mess.
fwiw, I prefer my CTH-8550 to any SET amp I've owned
++++yes....agree. I prefer my dart to any tubes.
I was going to suggest dart 458's as ideal 'emulate tubes without sounding tubey'......but thought better of it.
Personally, coming from the CJ tube world (incl amps), i am really enjoying Gryphon. The Antileon was tremendous though a bit dark in the treble...reasonably extended but just recessed relative to the rest of the spectrum. The Colosseum has no issues there, and i have endless power with a surprising delicacy in the mids and treble i admire. In fact, somewhere on AGon i posted about my experiences switching from CJ Tubed amps to Antileon...i think i called the thread "Powerful Tube Amp for SF Strads" or something.
The newest Blue Circle NSC preamp (https://www.flickr.com/photos/17843311@N00/sets/72157670666683675) and NSL SS amp (www.bluecircle.com/page70.html) combine the best of both worlds. However, you probably have to make a trip to Amherst Audio in Amherst, MA to listen!
I use a McCormack DNA500 amp on my Duetta Sig's. It has all the current and power you need to control an Apogee, but I would strongly suggest using tubes upstream of it in the preamp and phono stage. Not that it has any solid state harshness, it's just that Apogees will bloom even more with tubes in the chain, and you are playing to their strong suit then.
In his review of the VTL Siegfried Series II Michael Fremer indicated, during his comparison of the 458 with the VTL, that the 458 was just slightly to the solid-state side of the VTL, which means, to me, that he thinks the 458 does a great job of riding that fine line where the best tubes and the best solid-state meet.
Mike,
I also would not say that DartZeel emulates tubes. Although we should not define something by absence, I would say that DartZeel has almost none of the typical "nasties" we generally associate with solid state, and can sound really beautiful.
But intrinsically is not tube like - at less like the tubes I know well. One aspect separates it from tubes in general - it particularly needs great matching. Although in general most tube amplifiers will sound very good in most systems, in order to get a perception of what the DartZeel is able to do you must optimize the system very carefully. DartZeels are very susceptible to the wrong cables (power, signal or speaker) . The DartZeel's are able to show an enormous finesse and resolution, but simultaneously being vivid and emotional. But IMHO only with a few selected components!
Having lived with DartZeel along many years - particularly the NH108B I own and the CH8550 - sometimes I feel that I really do not know it!
Hi Ron, were there 2 or 4 monos in the system? In my experience, you can't give enough power to that speaker - and actually most speakers are underpowered. If your friend is running 2, he should buy 2 more.
My advice to Spirit is to get as many monos as he can afford, as Apogee is a bear to drive. In fact, I would not spend any serious money on cables, twerks, etc., until he gets enough power to completely control the speaker, so he can hear properly hear every macrodynamic swing, all microdynamics, and every nuance and shading of music that only a properly powered amp can bring to the table.
Also, as far as Aesthetix reputation goes, it is ROCK SOLID. But as a downside of their design, the word on the street is they are not as open in the highs - to accommodate bright recordings and bad, reverberant rooms. Just something to think about for guys who like their highs to go on forever.
I came from tubes to darTZeel originally; Tenor 75 watt OTL monos and Tenor 300 watt Hybrid monos. and I've had any number of tube amps in system since I've had the darts. I love the good aspects of tube sound; that 'breath of life' ethereal sort of musical essence along with a silkiness and spatiality and bloom. OTOH the 'tubey' kind of stuff; a roundness, some degree of blunted attacks and lack of transient agility, warmed tonal shift, less than ultimate transparency, and lessened bass articulation and extension....a layer of musical sameness.....I can live without.
the former gets us closer to the musical message whatever that might be, the latter gets between us and that message, in spite of the fact we might like it.
the darts, particularly the 458 monos, do resemble (emulate) the aspects of tubes that I like. yet also allowing for all the best of solid state.
as far as darts needing to be carefully matched; I would say that any truly clear window reveals all to those who might see. some clear windows add a whiteness or grain, or maybe miss some of the spectrum....the dart gets it all. the dart rewards the best gear. not to say that it does not work well with lots of gear. it simply works better with better. but it will never be the ying to the yang.
as far as working with different cables or different gear we have the #1 stud reviewer Mr. Fremer using these same amps with all sorts of cables and gear.
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Not sure how they stack up against the big boys costing many times more, but the PS audio BHK monos are hybrid and easily the best amps I ever owned, and relatively affordable to boot.
Musical Fidelity Superchargers were designed to take tube amp (or other low powered amps) output as their input and do you 550 odd Watts I seem to remember. The claim being the Superchargers held the personality of the input amp.
I wonder how well that worked in practice.
As I have indicted I think it is really dodgy ground. Don't spend any money before you try it or the butt hurt factor may well be off the scale.
I wonder how well that worked in practice.
As I have indicted I think it is really dodgy ground. Don't spend any money before you try it or the butt hurt factor may well be off the scale.
Justin, I totally get your advice on taking any potential Apogees to bake offs and trying amps to keep spend/frustration ratio to a minimum, but at c.100kg for and 6' X 2.5' for each Diva, this is not going to happen
I fully agree that it's more complex than it might appear to get this tubes on mids and treble ribbons/SS or hybrid amp on bass ribbons synergy to work
No doubt my Zus are beyond simple in comparison, full range drivers lapping up SETs, Class D Hypex amps to the subs which only kick in below 35 Hz
I fully agree that it's more complex than it might appear to get this tubes on mids and treble ribbons/SS or hybrid amp on bass ribbons synergy to work
No doubt my Zus are beyond simple in comparison, full range drivers lapping up SETs, Class D Hypex amps to the subs which only kick in below 35 Hz
I think I should clarify - my experience with the 458's is limited, and their cost is much beyond what I would consider for an amplifier. My opinions are based on the 108 and 8550.
And I am very happy that Mr. Fremer is enjoying himself a lot using the Dartzeel 458 with the matching preamplifier for his reviews. Did he get the new NHB 18NS?
I do believe that Mr. Fremer is enjoying the new version of the 18NS. and he does regularly mix and match amps and preamps, and different cables into the mix depending on what he might be reviewing. he has the proprietary 'zeel' cables but typically does not use them (as I understand it).
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What about the BAT VK600SE? THat has the power, tonality and control that might work very nicely indeed.
Either the NAT will work just fine on the Diva bass...no matter what Rich is telling. BTW, the original Diva spec was that the speakers could hit 118db with 100 watts at 4 or 5 meters (can't remembe anymore). That is for a pair.
My experience of playing with amps on a Diva and the upper section of a Grand (which is basically a souped up Diva) was that a single pair of SE2SEs or Transmitters would be just fine. Now if you have a large room or listen extremely loud that might not still be true. We got good results from tube amps because the bass panel's imedance is quite uniform and not too low (around 3-4 ohms). Sensitivity is around 85-86db as well. So, a 100 watt tube amp, if it has GOOD output transformers, would be more than enough. Flo had is SE2SE measured and it was putting out well over 100 watts before clipping. Transmitters are rated well over 100 watts as well. Should work like a charm.
You should try the NAT Symbiosis SE that I had. With 100 watts of hybrid SE(MOSFET) it would probably do ok with your Soundlabs and deliver a very natural sound.
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