YG Acoustics Announces Sonja XV Loudspeaker

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asiufy

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Folks,

Got a few answers today from my friends at YG:

Regarding the connection/hook ups:
"We provide a jumper that ties the woofer tower to the main tower. All crossovers are in the main tower. There are color coded binding posts on both towers that aid in performing the proper connections. The speaker is completely passive. It is actually an easier load to drive than the Sonja 1.3. The speaker can be single-wired, bi-wired and tri-wired, as well as single-amped, bi-amped and tri-amped. If tri-wiring or tri-amping the configuration is as follows: One amp/set of wires will drive all of the mid-woofers (7.25") and subwoofers (10.25"), the second amp/set of wires will drive the midrange drivers (6"), and the third amp/set of wires would drive the tweeters."

And, as I expected, regarding possible adjustments for the bass tower:
"There are no adjustments on the woofer tower or anywhere else. We did this to keep the signal as pure as possible without introducing degrading potentiometers. The way the bass couples with the room on this speaker is fantastic. By moving the position of the sub tower you can fine tune. "

I've also discussed the possibility of factory visits during RMAF, and they're very interested. So, if anybody's interested, and would like to arrange for a specific time/date, let me know and I'll coordinate with the factory!


cheers,
alex
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Folks,

Got a few answers today from my friends at YG:

Regarding the connection/hook ups:
"We provide a jumper that ties the woofer tower to the main tower. All crossovers are in the main tower. There are color coded binding posts on both towers that aid in performing the proper connections. The speaker is completely passive. It is actually an easier load to drive than the Sonja 1.3. The speaker can be single-wired, bi-wired and tri-wired, as well as single-amped, bi-amped and tri-amped. If tri-wiring or tri-amping the configuration is as follows: One amp/set of wires will drive all of the mid-woofers (7.25") and subwoofers (10.25"), the second amp/set of wires will drive the midrange drivers (6"), and the third amp/set of wires would drive the tweeters."

And, as I expected, regarding possible adjustments for the bass tower:
"There are no adjustments on the woofer tower or anywhere else. We did this to keep the signal as pure as possible without introducing degrading potentiometers. The way the bass couples with the room on this speaker is fantastic. By moving the position of the sub tower you can fine tune. "

I've also discussed the possibility of factory visits during RMAF, and they're very interested. So, if anybody's interested, and would like to arrange for a specific time/date, let me know and I'll coordinate with the factory!


cheers,
alex

Interesting, so its basically a totally passive extension to the main speakers, and presumably the crossover to which it connects (low bass i imagine) is essentially sending the same signal to these woofer towers as to the existing woofers in the main speakers.

Questions:

1- does this negate one of the reasons (other designers) like 4-tower speakers (active crossover allows for customization of sound to the room response; ability to remove some level of bass response from the main towers, to free them up a bit.

2.- despite the informaition ease of driving, does this make a lot more work for the main amps? I suppose they say one can biamp/triamp, so does that eliminate this issue potentially or mitigate it?

3- presumably a lot will happen if you change jumper cables given the current running to those speakers? needs to be a heavy copper something?

4-if you wish to separate the 2 woofer towers presumably, then the connection cable needs to be more than a typical 6 inch jumper cable?

5-Does anyone know why they decided not to go with an active crossover, other than their comment about 'no additional parts'?
 

Ron Resnick

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Folks,

Got a few answers today from my friends at YG:

Regarding the connection/hook ups:
"We provide a jumper that ties the woofer tower to the main tower. All crossovers are in the main tower. There are color coded binding posts on both towers that aid in performing the proper connections. The speaker is completely passive. It is actually an easier load to drive than the Sonja 1.3. The speaker can be single-wired, bi-wired and tri-wired, as well as single-amped, bi-amped and tri-amped. If tri-wiring or tri-amping the configuration is as follows: One amp/set of wires will drive all of the mid-woofers (7.25") and subwoofers (10.25"), the second amp/set of wires will drive the midrange drivers (6"), and the third amp/set of wires would drive the tweeters."

And, as I expected, regarding possible adjustments for the bass tower:
"There are no adjustments on the woofer tower or anywhere else. We did this to keep the signal as pure as possible without introducing degrading potentiometers. The way the bass couples with the room on this speaker is fantastic. By moving the position of the sub tower you can fine tune. "

I've also discussed the possibility of factory visits during RMAF, and they're very interested. So, if anybody's interested, and would like to arrange for a specific time/date, let me know and I'll coordinate with the factory!


cheers,
alex

The passive design with no adjustment controls for level or crossover points or phase or "Q" certainly is interesting. All else being equal I like the simplicity of the design.

It really is one unitary speaker which just happens to have three of its four woofers located in a separate cabinet.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

I have never heard a YG speaker. They are in my search and I will audition one soo. THis said

However much we want to deny this it, the room DOMINATES in the bass. There are ways to mitigate it. Any and all of of those means require to alter parameters of the low frequency transducers.. a nice way to say that you need to be able to adjust some of the parameters of the low drivers aka woofers. There is no way around that, unless one has the perfect room and no "one" has that.
You look at most of the designs with so-called "columns" woofers. For the sake of arguments, those subs don't need to be columns, actually lower movable pieces like what Duke Le Jeune has done in his "swarm" or Von Schweikert with the VX 100 (? I could be wrong on the model number but the one with two of the subs in the back of the listener) potentially offer better results... but we are audiophiles and stuck in our ways so we like columns and manufacturers oblige and give us columns. ). Von Shweikert goes a little above that and offers ways to vary the output of individual drivers within the bass columns and this could provide better, smoother bass in the room .. I think so does the MM7, MikeL can correct me.
Once you introduce subwoofers you need to be able to vary their output with respect to the main depending on room and placement within the room. Perhaps I didn't read it well but the YG does not seem to offer that... I think this is needed in such configuration. No adjustment of the woofer is not a good way to integrate such a system in a room IMHO, IME, YMMV for those who want to see such qualifiers :). This may elicit flames and I just turned my flame-proof suits on. :D
 

Mike Lavigne

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my understanding is that YG does not do active powered bass or adjustable bass EQ with any of their speakers. so integrating such systems into their statement product has multi-level consequences.

and I respect that they need to be who they are. Wilson and Magico don't do active either.

as far as the MM7's, those are at least the 5th active powered bass/adjustable speaker system (VR9SE, VR11SE, MM2/3/Exact, MM Mini Two) designed by Kevin Malmgren. it's part of the culture of his 'uber' designs.

every designer makes their choices.....and goes down their own path.

and yes; the MM7 bass tower drivers can be independently adjusted (top 2 and bottom 2 have separate adjustments and separate amplifiers).

it's only fair to listen to this new design with open ears. as I said, I applaud YG for doing this and look forward to hearing it at some point.
 

LL21

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In general, i have personally found great benefit in being able to set up the bass with variable that allow customization to the system and the room. I too found it surprising that the YG woofer towers are totally unadjustable and connected via a jumper cable.

As for the big Wilsons, they actually do have SOME adjustability in the bass...the resistor values for tweeters, mids and woofers can all be changed by the distributor upon setup. This changes the output of each to customize to the room and listener preferences. The rear/front port output of the XLF can change 1-3db depending on front/vs rear and front walls, etc...but that is more a placement thing than a 'knob' that changes.
 

microstrip

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In general, i have personally found great benefit in being able to set up the bass with variable that allow customization to the system and the room. I too found it surprising that the YG woofer towers are totally unadjustable and connected via a jumper cable.

As for the big Wilsons, they actually do have SOME adjustability in the bass...the resistor values for tweeters, mids and woofers can all be changed by the distributor upon setup. This changes the output of each to customize to the room and listener preferences. The rear/front port output of the XLF can change 1-3db depending on front/vs rear and front walls, etc...but that is more a placement thing than a 'knob' that changes.

LLoyd,
As far as I remember the resistor that could be changed in the bass in the Wilson's was the damping resistor, not the series resistors as in the mids and tweeters. And Wilson Audio have real bass adjustment - they call it Watchdog or Thor's Hammer and controller.
 

microstrip

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(...) (iii) allows the designer the option to design and build-in the amplifiers to power the subwoofer towers so that the amplification can be optimized specifically for the particular design (...)

Much more than that - the designer also controls the critical filter section. In the active speaker debate in TAS a few years ago, some designers were very critic on this aspect, as well as in the proper choice of the type of amplifier, as you refer - and they were addressing only active bass.
 

LL21

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LLoyd,
As far as I remember the resistor that could be changed in the bass in the Wilson's was the damping resistor, not the series resistors as in the mids and tweeters. And Wilson Audio have real bass adjustment - they call it Watchdog or Thor's Hammer and controller.

Thanks for the clarifications...i admit i did not know the nuances of the different resistors, but i thought each change to any of these resistors would allow for some customization of sound? And yes, totally agree that the Wilson Controller definitely provides for customization of bass which is in my own personal experience has made an enormous difference.
 

FrantzM

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Mike
once you go multi column that is you have bass in a separate enclosure , you need to have som adjustability... Magico and Wilson do that. THey have controls on their subs and/or controllers. I know very little about speaker design but know that bass integration requires adjustment...No! mandates adjustments. This may not be the polite thing to say and it may even sound arrogant but do ask privately, most any speaker designer and their answers will be that... I am not saying they will not sound good. Our hobby is predicated on sounding better not merely goog .. with no adjustability that could be difficult...

Truth to be told they mention that the system allows multi amping This would definitely allow, the audiophile, to adjust the bass rather competently but that would throw the "purity" paradigm out of the equation with active crossovers ... I fail to see in what way a passive crossover doesn't alter a signal however ...
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike
once you go multi column that is you have bass in a separate enclosure , you need to have som adjustability... Magico and Wilson do that. THey have controls on their subs and/or controllers. I know very little about speaker design but know that bass integration requires adjustment...No! mandates adjustments. This may not be the polite thing to say and it may even sound arrogant but do ask privately, most any speaker designer and their answers will be that... I am not saying they will not sound good. Our hobby is predicated on sounding better not merely goog .. with no adjustability that could be difficult...

Truth to be told they mention that the system allows multi amping This would definitely allow, the audiophile, to adjust the bass rather competently but that would throw the "purity" paradigm out of the equation with active crossovers ... I fail to see in what way a passive crossover doesn't alter a signal however ...

to me the magic of two columns begins with the main column rolling off....to allow for the 'potential' of ideal integration. and if a 2 column integrated speaker system just gets that part right, then that is a significant step. the sticky part is my experience is that over time as I've improved my room the 'ideal' settings on my bass towers for best sound has radically changed. hard to imagine working with a speaker without the ability to adapt to take full advantages of those changes.

of course; another way to look at it is that if the speaker is neutral and the room is screwed up, then just keep changing the room until the sound is good. it's also a valid approach I suppose......but likely an over-simplification of reality.

being able to work both sides of the equation possibly gets you closer to all the way right.
 

microstrip

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Mike
once you go multi column that is you have bass in a separate enclosure , you need to have som adjustability... Magico and Wilson do that. (...)

Frantz,

Even other brands can have it nowadays - did you see the great posts of Marty on the JLAudio CR1 separate analog grade audiophile crossover that adjusts Q (damping) separately for the sub and satellite? See page 11 of their manual, one of the most synthetic but comprehensive and easy to read manuals I have found in a subwoofer system. http://intl.jlaudio.com/cr-1-home-audio-subwoofer-crossovers-96020. It is the kind of system I will try someday in my system ... Probably this is the little tweak all my tries with DSP and nice measurements have missed!

Damping Controls
There are two “Damping” controls on the CR-1, one in the Subwoofer Section
and another in the Satellite Section of the front control panel. This precision
tuning feature allows you to compensate for loudspeaker response variations in
the crossover region. The “Damping” controls work by altering the damping of
the crossover filters. In technical terms, the controls raise or lower the “Q” factor
of each filter. However, the number markings on the “Damping” controls are for
reference only and do not directly refer to any specific “Q” value.
In plain language, the Subwoofer and Satellite “Damping” controls allow the
small frequency ranges around each filter’s initial roll-off region to be boosted
(+) or cut (–), outside of the standard Linkwitz-Riley filter alignments. When
set correctly, the “Damping” controls provide a final “tweak” to an expertly
integrated subwoofer system.


And yes, please skip the comment on warmup - it can spoil your reading pleasure ... ;)
 

PeterA

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my understanding is that YG does not do active powered bass or adjustable bass EQ with any of their speakers. so integrating such systems into their statement product has multi-level consequences.

and I respect that they need to be who they are. Wilson and Magico don't do active either.

as far as the MM7's, those are at least the 5th active powered bass/adjustable speaker system (VR9SE, VR11SE, MM2/3/Exact, MM Mini Two) designed by Kevin Malmgren. it's part of the culture of his 'uber' designs.

every designer makes their choices.....and goes down their own path.

and yes; the MM7 bass tower drivers can be independently adjusted (top 2 and bottom 2 have separate adjustments and separate amplifiers).

it's only fair to listen to this new design with open ears. as I said, I applaud YG for doing this and look forward to hearing it at some point.

Mike, I think the Magico QSubs (both 15" and 18") do in fact have built in amplifiers, i.e. they are active. They are low, massive aluminum boxes and I think they are fully adjustable.
 

MadFloyd

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Mike, I think the Magico QSubs (both 15" and 18") do in fact have built in amplifiers, i.e. they are active. They are low, massive aluminum boxes and I think they are fully adjustable.

Peter, those are subwoofers, which are usually active, not bass towers.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, I think the Magico QSubs (both 15" and 18") do in fact have built in amplifiers, i.e. they are active. They are low, massive aluminum boxes and I think they are fully adjustable.

1--an 'active' speaker system is a full range integrated system with a built in amplifier for the low frequencies. active = amplifier.

2--a 2 tower integrated speaker system is where neither tower is stand alone capable; they only work as a system.

3--and then we have built in low frequency EQ adjustments.

ideally you would have 1+2+3. but each concept is an independent issue.
 

asiufy

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Just so we don't lose track of what we're talking about here. This is NOT a tower+sub setup. It's a complete system. In that way, it's closer to what an MM7 is than a Magico/Wilson+subs.

The difference here is that Kevin chose to go active/adjustable for the bass units, while YG chose fully passive.

So, if you have (near) infinite adjustments with an MM7, you can say you don't have one speaker, but many. That makes the adjustment/setup process also nearly infinite! On the other hand, with the YG system, it's one speaker, and you're basically down to old school methods of positioning to obtain the best performance.

I have both brands of speakers here, and I can say for sure that, while they do sound different, they present two versions of a "truth". If one accepts there's no universal "truth" in audio, it's natural that we all just drift towards the one that we find more "true".
 

PeterA

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Peter, those are subwoofers, which are usually active, not bass towers.

Ian, I was responding to the following post:


my understanding is that YG does not do active powered bass or adjustable bass EQ with any of their speakers. so integrating such systems into their statement product has multi-level consequences...and I respect that they need to be who they are. Wilson and Magico don't do active either.


The Magico Qsub is an active powered bass speaker, or at least that is my understanding. It also has adjustable bass EQ. I did not realize that the discussion was restricted to bass towers, or that a vertical bass tower is fundamentally different from a horizontal bass cabinet with two opposite firing bass drivers. Is the distinction the orientation of the cabinet, the number of drivers or something else?

I also am getting the impression that bass towers are usually active and that this YG case is somewhat unusual.
 
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PeterA

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1--an 'active' speaker system is a full range integrated system with a built in amplifier for the low frequencies. active = amplifier.

2--a 2 tower integrated speaker system is where neither tower is stand alone capable; they only work as a system.

3--and then we have built in low frequency EQ adjustments.

ideally you would have 1+2+3. but each concept is an independent issue.

I agree with this Mike, but your earlier post made no mention of "an active speaker system" or a full range integrated system. I was responding to what you wrote here:

"my understanding is that YG does not do active powered bass or adjustable bass EQ with any of their speakers. so integrating such systems into their statement product has multi-level consequences...and I respect that they need to be who they are. Wilson and Magico don't do active either."

You seemed to be referring to the lowest frequencies or did I misunderstand you? Magico does do an active powered bass and adjustable bass EQ with their Qsubs I presume specifically for system integration. This is different from what YG seems to be doing with this new four tower system.

The Magicos Q7+QSub seems to be "an active full range integrated system with a built in amplifier for the low frequencies. active = amplifier." So this is not like the YG case which is what I thought you were implying. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It seems the EA MM7, the YG Sonja XV, all have Magico/Wilson have different approaches to integrating the lowest octaves into these systems, the Magico/Wilson being mains plus subs.

What distinguishes a sub system from these woofer towers? The fact that a sub (regardless of orientation) can be used with multiple main speakers and the Sonja XV and MM7 woofer towers are specifically designed for matching/proprietary mains from the same manufacturer? Have the QSubs or Wilson Thor been used with other brands? I'm curious.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I agree with this Mike, but your earlier post made no mention of "an active speaker system" or a full range integrated system. I was responding to what you wrote here:

"my understanding is that YG does not do active powered bass or adjustable bass EQ with any of their speakers. so integrating such systems into their statement product has multi-level consequences...and I respect that they need to be who they are. Wilson and Magico don't do active either."

You seemed to be referring to the lowest frequencies or did I misunderstand you? Magico does do an active powered bass and adjustable bass EQ with their Qsubs I presume specifically for system integration. This is different from what YG seems to be doing with this new four tower system.

The Magicos Q7+QSub seems to be "an active full range integrated system with a built in amplifier for the low frequencies. active = amplifier." So this is not like the YG case which is what I thought you were implying. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

from my perspective a Magico Q7+QSub is absolutely not "an active full range integrated system with built in amplifier for the low frequencies". because the Q7 is a stand alone speaker it will not completely integrate with an added subwoofer.....any.....added......subwoofer. will it get close to being integrated? can you be 'almost' pregnant?

to make myself clear.......let's say instead of the standard Q7 Magico changed the crossover and maybe the drivers too to roll off at the bottom perfectly so it matched the characteristics of the QSub so it was a completely smooth transition. this new 'altered' Q7 would no longer work as a stand alone speaker because it lacked fullness in the lowest octave. this 'altered' Q7/QSub combo which was then designed to absolutely integrate is then compared to a Standard Q7 w/QSub. you would then be able to hear what 'integrated' means compared to 'adding a sub to a full range speaker'. there is a difference. and the harder you push the cobbled together pair the more you would hear where the match is not quite right.

YG has done the hard part of full integration with twin towers. it's just a fully passive approach. I hope to hear it sometime.
 
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