Are we entering the age of the Heaviest is "Best" turntable? Heavy = Musical?

caesar · Jul 21, 2016

About a decade ago, Fremer selected the Continuum Cobra as his reference. It registers at under 200 lbs. About 5 years ago, the excellent Air Force one came at a weight of a heavyweight boxing champ, a touch under 250 lbs. Today, "Sterile" Jon Valin is marketing a new invictus turntable that is like 350 lbs.

One can image competitors conjuring up turntables weighing a ton or more for attention and claims to "the best"....

What exactly does extra weight provide?

Does the extra weight provide more distracting detail or musical detail?

ddk · Jul 21, 2016

caesar said:
About a decade ago, Fremer selected the Continuum Cobra as his reference. It registers at under 200 lbs. About 5 years ago, the excellent Air Force one came at a weight of a heavyweight boxing champ, a touch under 250 lbs. Today, "Sterile" Jon Valin is marketing a new invictus turntable that is like 350 lbs.

One can image competitors conjuring up turntables weighing a ton or more for attention and claims to "the best"....

What exactly does extra weight provide?

Does the extra weight provide more distracting detail or musical detail?

IME, when the tt is designed and executed properly at a certain point it isn't about the amount of anything anymore the higher mass brings more "naturalness" with it.

david

fas42 · Jul 21, 2016

caesar said:
What exactly does extra weight provide?

Does the extra weight provide more distracting detail or musical detail?

Technically, it has the potential to reduce the frequency, and amplitude of vibrational energy - any stray vibration in the TT system at audio frequencies can obviously modulate, distort the audio signal encoded on the vinyl, so the trick is to get that vibration outside the human hearing range. Of course, if made of the wrong material or badly damped it will ring at some frequency which is again a bother - not a trival exercise!

Mike Lavigne · Jul 21, 2016

my Rockport weighed 600+ pounds (including the integral air suspension rack). no doubt it had an authoritative sound to it.

however; I think my Wave Kinetics NVS (at around 125-140 pounds with arms +80 pounds for the Herzan) is at least it's equal at that attribute, and better subtly in other ways.

past a certain level of mass more weight for it's own sake is not germane to performance....and might actually detract from net performance. more weight 'doing something productive' can be better. but execution is much more significant than pure numbers of pounds.

MRJAZZ · Jul 21, 2016

ddk said:
IME, when the tt is designed and executed properly at a certain point it isn't about the amount of anything anymore the higher mass brings more "naturalness" with it.

david

Just added two new tables to the stable.....TRIANGLE ART REFERENCE SE and SIGNATURE. THE REFERENCE SE tips the scales at 275 pounds , and the SIGNATURE at 175. They are somewhat Blingy looking from a photographic standpoint but look quite impressive in person, but more importantly they perform at the highest levels. Naturaless and Authoritative are two words that

describe their contribution to the playback medium.
Cheers.....

Folsom · Jul 21, 2016

It's probably hard to design them how a person wants to, without collecting weight. It'd be especially hard for free standers, since while you're only goal may be a usable height, you have to account for all possible resonances in the legs as in not just any old legs will do.

rockitman · Jul 21, 2016

ddk said:
IME, when the tt is designed and executed properly at a certain point it isn't about the amount of anything anymore the higher mass brings more "naturalness" with it.

david

please remind us of the American Sound weight...

ddk · Jul 21, 2016

rockitman said:
please remind us of the American Sound weight...

510 lbs

!

david

marty · Jul 22, 2016

My new dedicated sound room and new turntable. Platter weight- 4 tons

NorthStar · Jul 22, 2016

I like that roof.

beaur · Jul 22, 2016

There was a table at Munich this year that could have weighed a ton. Don't think it was that heavy but it was the most massive TT I have ever seen.

Especially for platter weight on belt drives there is always discussion on speed stability and the flywheel effect.

There are also manufacturers out there still advocating light TT and stands so it doesn't appear to be universal.

caesar said:
About a decade ago, Fremer selected the Continuum Cobra as his reference. It registers at under 200 lbs. About 5 years ago, the excellent Air Force one came at a weight of a heavyweight boxing champ, a touch under 250 lbs. Today, "Sterile" Jon Valin is marketing a new invictus turntable that is like 350 lbs.

One can image competitors conjuring up turntables weighing a ton or more for attention and claims to "the best"....

What exactly does extra weight provide?

Does the extra weight provide more distracting detail or musical detail?

audioblazer · Jul 22, 2016

caesar said:
About a decade ago, Fremer selected the Continuum Cobra as his reference. It registers at under 200 lbs. About 5 years ago, the excellent Air Force one came at a weight of a heavyweight boxing champ, a touch under 250 lbs. Today, "Sterile" Jon Valin is marketing a new invictus turntable that is like 350 lbs.

One can image competitors conjuring up turntables weighing a ton or more for attention and claims to "the best"....

What exactly does extra weight provide?

Does the extra weight provide more distracting detail or musical detail?

The main unit of AFO is only 85kg = 187 lbs

MRJAZZ · Jul 22, 2016

Here's TRIANGLE Art's statement table....the ULTIMATE LE.....130k MSRP....weighting in at 885 pounds.

audioblazer · Jul 22, 2016

beaur said:
There was a table at Munich this year that could have weighed a ton. Don't think it was that heavy but it was the most massive TT I have ever seen.

Especially for platter weight on belt drives there is always discussion on speed stability and the flywheel effect.

There are also manufacturers out there still advocating light TT and stands so it doesn't appear to be universal.

Acoustical Syst Apolyt TT. Nett weight 388kg . Platter alone 58kg

JackD201 · Jul 22, 2016

MRJAZZ said:
Here's TRIANGLE Art's statement table....the ULTIMATE LE.....130k MSRP....weighting in at 885 pounds.
View attachment 28029

Hard to concentrate on anything else other than Bobby's models in this pic. LOL.

Folsom · Jul 22, 2016

Careful, they cost more than the turntable and are light enough to follow you around.

16hz lover · Sep 9, 2016

fas42 said:
Technically, it has the potential to reduce the frequency, and amplitude of vibrational energy - any stray vibration in the TT system at audio frequencies can obviously modulate, distort the audio signal encoded on the vinyl, so the trick is to get that vibration outside the human hearing range. Of course, if made of the wrong material or badly damped it will ring at some frequency which is again a bother - not a trival exercise!

An air bearing tonearm and platter would seem to minimize and isolate the vibrations getting to the cartridge.

microstrip · Sep 9, 2016

16hz lover said:
An air bearing tonearm and platter would seem to minimize and isolate the vibrations getting to the cartridge.

Fortunately not. Air bearings reduce friction, but should not isolate the moving elements of the turntable!

jeff1225 · Sep 9, 2016

400 total lbs with stand. I hope I never have to move....

Mike Lavigne · Sep 9, 2016

microstrip said:
Fortunately not. Air bearings reduce friction, but should not isolate the moving elements of the turntable!

'air' has it's own turbulence.

and an air bearing softens bass to some degree when used in an arm....when compared to the best solid bearing tone arms.

up to a point the air bearing arm is better; but then the best other designs keep getting better. there are aspects of the air bearing arms which are wonderful....and if those things are most important then that is a different story.

Are we entering the age of the Heaviest is "Best" turntable? Heavy = Musical?

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