What are the Contenders for best one-box DAC on earth?

caesar · Jul 16, 2016

What are some of the best one-box DACs, for the space constrained?

I know a couple of "audio journalists" have been talking about Berkeley being the best. But the latest review by the Computer Audiophile geek (I say that respectfully - as in geeks shall rule the world) confirms that the Berkeley is a product for the "transparency to source"/ analytical listener target market:

"...Based on my several hours with the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2, I can say I heard my music like never before. For example, I'm still trying to figure out what is making a certain sound on an album I've heard a hundred times, yet never heard this sound previously. On the Reference Recordings 24 bit / 176.4 kHz HRx release of Nojima Plays Liszt from Minoru Nojima (HR-25), On track one Mephisto Waltz, I hear a clicking sound in the left channel, especially present during the first three minutes of the track. I described this to a colleague as a mouse clicking sound, as if someone was surfing the Internet next to the microphones during the recording. I'm guessing this is a sound made by the piano, but I'd love to know for sure..."

Unlike the analytical listeners that listen for disparate sound artifacts and measure the quality of all gear that way, I'm interested in listening to the musical whole - instead of sonic distractions, so I can reach a meditative state and a gentle sense of euphoria, so I can lose awareness of all peripheral problems and distractions.

Anything out there that is as good or better as the well-respected multi box units out there?

Ken Newton · Jul 16, 2016

caesar said:
...I'm interested in listening to the musical whole - instead of sonic distractions, so I can reach a meditative state and a gentle sense of euphoria, so I can lose awareness of all peripheral problems and distractions.

Anything out there that is as good or better as the well-respected multi box units out there?

From your above listening goal, I suspect that a NOS (Non-Oversampling) DAC may be best for you. NOS DACs lack any digital reconstruction filter. They seem, indeed, to give the sound a very natural and relaxed subjective character. However, they also exhibit an undesired readily audible side-effect of an approximately -3dB @ 20kHz treble roll-off with CD sample rate content, for example. However, that treble roll-off can be equalized in the analog domain, although, not many NOS DAC vendors appear to do so.

As far as one box NOS DAC choices, there a good number, spanning all chassis sizes and purchase cost. Rather than my recommending one unit in particular, it would be more efficient if you simply performed a search for NOS DACs and selected a few candidates matching whatever are your size and budget constraints.

microstrip · Jul 16, 2016

caesar said:
What are some of the best one-box DACs, for the space constrained?

I know a couple of "audio journalists" have been talking about Berkeley being the best. But the latest review by the Computer Audiophile geek (I say that respectfully - as in geeks shall rule the world) confirms that the Berkeley is a product for the "transparency to source"/ analytical listener target market:

"...Based on my several hours with the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2, I can say I heard my music like never before. For example, I'm still trying to figure out what is making a certain sound on an album I've heard a hundred times, yet never heard this sound previously. On the Reference Recordings 24 bit / 176.4 kHz HRx release of Nojima Plays Liszt from Minoru Nojima (HR-25), On track one Mephisto Waltz, I hear a clicking sound in the left channel, especially present during the first three minutes of the track. I described this to a colleague as a mouse clicking sound, as if someone was surfing the Internet next to the microphones during the recording. I'm guessing this is a sound made by the piano, but I'd love to know for sure..."

Unlike the analytical listeners that listen for disparate sound artifacts and measure the quality of all gear that way, I'm interested in listening to the musical whole - instead of sonic distractions, so I can reach a meditative state and a gentle sense of euphoria, so I can lose awareness of all peripheral problems and distractions.

Anything out there that is as good or better as the well-respected multi box units out there?

IMHO the type of hyper detail you are referring is not a characteristic of the DAC, but of the combination of the DAC with the rest of the system.

Something in the whole system triggers this successful finding of new details - that most of the time from this moment on we will find in the recordings if we look for it. IMHO the capability of resolving the details responsible for space and position in the soundstage is really important when addressing this aspect - most of the time I find new details in a recording because I was not expecting anything from that place.

Just to tell that IMHO many systems that allow us to listen to the music as an whole are also very detailed - simply the detail is natural, not artificially etched.

And yes, the Soundlab´s are really one of the best speakers to reach a meditative state and a gentle sense of euphoria ...

LL21 · Jul 16, 2016

caesar said:
... "...On the Reference Recordings 24 bit / 176.4 kHz HRx release of Nojima Plays Liszt from Minoru Nojima (HR-25), On track one Mephisto Waltz, I hear a clicking sound in the left channel, especially present during the first three minutes of the track. I described this to a colleague as a mouse clicking sound, as if someone was surfing the Internet next to the microphones during the recording. I'm guessing this is a sound made by the piano, but I'd love to know for sure..."

Unlike the analytical listeners that listen for disparate sound artifacts and measure the quality of all gear that way, I'm interested in listening to the musical whole - instead of sonic distractions, so I can reach a meditative state and a gentle sense of euphoria, so I can lose awareness of all peripheral problems and distractions...."

I definitely hear this clicking noise, and it seems to be associated with the higher end of the piano keyboard spectrum, but for some reason i cannot help but think the click seems closer to the recording side than the instrument side. The click seems super-closely miked whereas the piano is clearly some distance away. We've got the windows open and my wife is cooking so hard to really scrutinize...

KeithR · Jul 16, 2016

I replaced a BADA with MSB Analog dac and haven't looked back. Ladder dacs I believe in general have the sound you are looking for.

bonzo75 · Jul 16, 2016

This is another best dac thread again with a multibox stack like Vivaldi taken out. So Lampizator Big 7 beats all, and GG beats Big 7

Jazzhead · Jul 16, 2016

bonzo75 said:
This is another best dac thread again with a multibox stack like Vivaldi taken out. So Lampizator Big 7 beats all, and GG beats Big 7

So does Vivaldi stack beat GG ?

bonzo75 · Jul 16, 2016

Jazzhead said:
So does Vivaldi stack beat GG ?

Lol - refer to the other thread.

KeithR · Jul 16, 2016

bonzo75 said:
This is another best dac thread again with a multibox stack like Vivaldi taken out. So Lampizator Big 7 beats all, and GG beats Big 7

Have you heard MSB vs Lampi in the same system?

bonzo75 · Jul 16, 2016

KeithR said:
Have you heard MSB vs Lampi in the same system?

No Alrainbow has both though

Mike Lavigne · Jul 16, 2016

bonzo75 said:
No Alrainbow has both though

yes....but which MSB?.....there are many....and tomorrow there will be many more.

when I get home I will listen to my Tape Project 15ips 1/4" 'Nojima Plays Liszt' dub and see what that clicking really is. I find that often digital hints become musically significant with analog.

as far as best one box DAC (or simply best DAC).....since we are only speaking about PCM here one must consider Trinity. likely better (I prefer it) than all but the MSB Select of what I've heard so far.

bonzo75 · Jul 16, 2016

I know and you can upgrade with 20k.

The point I wanted to make with my first post is that there are so many of these best dac threads with same answers that take out a vivaldi like stack aside, how is this thread for 1 box different?

LL21 · Jul 16, 2016

Mike Lavigne said:
yes....but which MSB?.....there are many....and tomorrow there will be many more.

when I get home I will listen to my Tape Project 15ips 1/4" 'Nojima Plays Liszt' dub and see what that clicking really is. I find that often digital hints become musically significant with analog.

as far as best one box DAC (or simply best DAC).....since we are only speaking about PCM here one must consider Trinity. likely better (I prefer it) than all but the MSB Select of what I've heard so far.

Look forward to finding out what that clicking is...i did not put it back on after we closed the windows and finished dinner.

microstrip · Jul 16, 2016

Jazzhead said:
So does Vivaldi stack beat GG ?

It depends on IC (integrated circuit) rolling on the Vivaldi ...

LL21 · Jul 17, 2016

Mike Lavigne said:
yes....but which MSB?.....there are many....and tomorrow there will be many more.

when I get home I will listen to my Tape Project 15ips 1/4" 'Nojima Plays Liszt' dub and see what that clicking really is. I find that often digital hints become musically significant with analog.

as far as best one box DAC (or simply best DAC).....since we are only speaking about PCM here one must consider Trinity. likely better (I prefer it) than all but the MSB Select of what I've heard so far.

The best i can figure is that the 'clicking' is clearly in high passages every time there are crescendos and with each note...the most interesting thing is it occurs around 1:45 with every single key when he literally runs his fingers from one end of the keyboard all the way to the other.

Fingernails is the only thing i can think of from my days of studying piano. When you strike, your nails hit the key first, and up close (ie when you're the player), you do hear it for sure. The sound still seems closely miked relative to the rest of the music...but it is literally with every note of certain crescendo passages.

Diapason · Jul 19, 2016

I don't know the recording in question, but I've regularly heard fingernail clicking on other piano discs. The fact that it's in the left channel lends some credence to this given how a piano is generally mic'ed, and since higher notes on the keyboard will also be closer to the mics I think that's more than likely the culprit.

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What are the Contenders for best one-box DAC on earth?

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