Tad reference 1

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
2,574
1,860
Sydney

Realsoftmonkey

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2017
7
5
66
Electronics, cabling, power and acoustics are all capable of producing negative effects, and it is true that some speaker drivers develop more and more audible nasties at higher SPL so the problem can be anything. With experience it's possible to tell what it is by the character of the harshness/distortion. Good drivers sound the same at a wide range of SPLs, and the TAD1 is about as good as it gets. I can guarantee you it's not the problem, but a speaker like the Ref1 will highlight any problems with your system.

Beryllium is an ideal driver material because it pushes the first resonant peak of the break-up mode very high in the frequency range and it is completely avoided. You get the resolution of hard-coned drivers with very little "extra" added from cone resonances, this is the main reason to use Be, so it was probably a top design priority to avoid those issues. I think the extreme difficulty of making midrange cones out of Be are the reason they're not around. The prices of much smaller compression driver diaphragms are around $500, a TAD coax Ref driver would cost more than just about anything on the market if it was sold separately. I think they partnered with SEAS to make them, you can get a driver near identical to the Evo series from them, and they use Mg tweeter instead of Be and are very expensive. Be tweeters are ~$500. I could see $10k+/pair for the Ref series coax drivers.

I have a pair of Pioneer S-1EX which use the same tweeter and they are the best tweeter on the market imo, not harsh at all even at very high SPLs. I think they need some volume to "come alive" and start sounding good myself. Not the same speaker at all, but...

Room acoustics can be a problem, especially in smaller rooms, but it's usually not a problem until higher SPLs vs issues from electronics, power or cabling. To me, small rooms get to the point the SPL feels overbearing, with electronics issues it's annoying before that point and you want to keep the volume down, even lose interest in listening if it persists over time... it's poison really. Maybe if you can describe what sounds harsh or even record it?


Fully agree with this, the TADs will hilight every aspect, good and bad, of the system behind it. It's not the speakers that are the issue.
 

Realsoftmonkey

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2017
7
5
66
Agreed,...the CR1 and REF1 have been out there and the number of very happy owners (and sellers who regret their sale of them) continues to grow.

Andrew has left but remember 1 man is NOT a company...they have plenty of talented people and at least 1 lead designer left reported to be of considerable skill and contribution to both CR1 and REF1.

My only question on the immediately prior post is why with TAD do we use words like "novelty" to diminish the reputation of a world-class speaker when noone seems to do this with Wilson, Magico, ML, etc...here???

Wishing you and your families a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Yes, and lets not forget the history of pioneer and tad. Long before Andrew jones arrived, who designed the cabinets. The beryllium driver was invented by pioneer in the 70s. Tads labs studio history and electronics history is way deeper than one person. Not discrediting AJ of course, but perspective.
 
Last edited:

Realsoftmonkey

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2017
7
5
66
Actually, not quite. TAD , has been sold, or/and split from Pioneer, and from what I heard, not a real thing anymore (without Andrew Johns, that is now with ELAC, there is not much there anyway).
Perhaps an update or two would have made a difference ;)

I'm not sure you understand the history of TAD and your comment shows a lack of understanding, as does your comment on updates. Magico are updating their products to keep selling them (probably to people more easily drawn in to marketing), great speaker designs stand the test of time. As do great designs generally. Speakers should not be updated regularly when their done right, technology doesn't change rapidly enough for a start. We are all still listening to the original speaker design principles from the 1900's, drivers and cabinets improving on the same physical principles.
 

Realsoftmonkey

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2017
7
5
66
Just realized you said "Mk2", LOL...

Once again you misunderstand. The mk 2 refers to a coating manufacturing technique changed in later production, the actual finished product is exactly the same as the mk 1. No difference. Hilighting for accuracy, so others reading posts are not misinformed.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
I'm not sure you understand the history of TAD and your comment shows a lack of understanding, as does your comment on updates. Magico are updating their products to keep selling them (probably to people more easily drawn in to marketing), great speaker designs stand the test of time. As do great designs generally. Speakers should not be updated regularly when their done right, technology doesn't change rapidly enough for a start. We are all still listening to the original speaker design principles from the 1900's, drivers and cabinets improving on the same physical principles.

Dream on, I still have a Nokia phone that works, but that is not a reason not to buy an IPhone (and Ferrari still have 4 wheels, just like the original Ford Model T). It is too bad, the R1 could greatly benefit from an update, the tweeter is way too hot at high volume, but don’t feel bad, everything can be improved, that does not mean that what you have is crap, it only means it can be better, but you will most likely never going to experience that...
 
Last edited:

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Fully agree with this, the TADs will hilight every aspect, good and bad, of the system behind it. It's not the speakers that are the issue.

Absolutely agreed...some have said the tweeters are way too hot, etc.....all I can say here is "not with the right system and cables"!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panas

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Oh, please...
This is how they measure, they are hot because they are hot. Like I said, an update would have been helpful.
View attachment 33456

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-compact-reference-cr1-loudspeaker-measurements

Sorry,...when you say 'way too hot...' I thought you were talking about how they sound and play music, not how they measure. Thanks for clarifying.

Personally, a update would be good someday if they could find any way to make them sound better than they do now.. I enjoy the pair I own, very much
and heard alot of speakers up and down the scale before making this jump.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
Sorry,...when you say 'way too hot...' I thought you were talking about how they sound and play music, not how they measure. Thanks for clarifying.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. But you can think it is a Swan, if it makes you feel better, that is all that matter, right?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Absolutely agreed...some have said the tweeters are way too hot, etc.....all I can say here is "not with the right system and cables"!

Oh, please...
This is how they measure, they are hot because they are hot. Like I said, an update would have been helpful.
View attachment 33456

https://www.stereophile.com/content/tad-compact-reference-cr1-loudspeaker-measurements

To be fair, this is the measurement for the Compact Reference, not SCAudiophile's Ref 1s...plus the inroom measurement in JA's room shows a much flatter response though, as you say, the review did note it almost was "too extended"...As JA says in the review, "The CR1's treble is smooth and extended—perhaps too extended, considering that this response ideally should slope down a little with increasing frequency, due to the increasing absorptivity of the room's furnishings at high frequencies."
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...dspeaker-measurements#tcb8h74AgxLboMBU.99(see in room measurement from same review below).

TAD measurement.jpg

In any event, its still not SCAudiophile's Ref 1s.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Panas

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. But you can think it is a Swan, if it makes you feel better, that is all that matter, right?

Yes,...that and the respect for other people having differing opinions! :cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panas

wikeeboy

New Member
Jan 20, 2017
2
1
0
The last line of the measured specs says it all really...

Summing up the measured performance of the TAD Compact Reference CR1 is easy: This is textbook behavior!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panas

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
The last line of the measured specs says it all really...

Summing up the measured performance of the TAD Compact Reference CR1 is easy: This is textbook behavior!

Maybe JA should read updated textbooks, the tweeter is in breakup mode, form ~9KHz and up (and if you can hear, you will hear it clearly listening to the speaker, especially at high volume). Unacceptable in this day and age.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,141
495
Maybe JA should read updated textbooks, the tweeter is in breakup mode, form ~9KHz and up (and if you can hear, you will hear it clearly listening to the speaker, especially at high volume). Unacceptable in this day and age.

This is just ridiculous. You have no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea what breakup is and your opinions seem quite odd and biased against TAD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panas

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
510
64
263
Italy
This is just ridiculous. You have no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea what breakup is and your opinions seem quite odd and biased against TAD.

Sure, then please explain what a 6 db (!!) deep right in the middle of the tweeter bandpass is. And don't forget the immediate trainwreck clime afterword, up 15 (!!) db at 30K. This tweeter is in a complete shambles above 9K (and you can hear it as well). No bias against anything, just pointing out a weak spot, one that could have used an update.
 

bengal_finch

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2015
6
1
135
Dear smoking joe, i am using Pantheon with MBL ref line, could you tell few words about atlantis why you like Tad over atlantis?
 

Rotatoubib

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2015
155
46
258
France
Hello! I plan to buy TAD ref One in place of my Avantgarde Mezzo. However, my room is quite small: 3.56 m by 7.80. Do you think its too small for these speakers? Should i prefer CR1? Thank you
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing