Stillpoints Under Which Components

skljesus

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Jun 18, 2016
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There are plenty of us with different levels of patience & perseverance.

I lack both to some degree. At age 68 I am not that energetic as in my younger days.

I have 3 sets of Ultra Minis for the moment.

And the following components.

a) Synology Storage Box.
b) Weiss Man 301 Media Server
c) 3 components of dCS Scarlatti. Upsampler/Dac/World Clock.

Anyone out there with more or less the same configuration who would advise me which 3 components I should place the Minis.??

And possibly in which location/positioning under each component.

Thanks in advance.
 

skljesus

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Jun 18, 2016
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Heard from dCS. They send a schematic of the dac. There are 2 transformers on the left hand side in front running one behind the other. The stillpoints go under those.
And another 2 on the right hand side in appropriate places to balance the dac.
 

rhyno

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Dec 29, 2010
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seriously, start with power. then your transport. but all AC boxes first.
 

skljesus

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Jun 18, 2016
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hi rhyno

i am from the olden age of components back from 1964's. Today its a different ball game.

although i own the dcs scarlatti dac/upsampler/clock, maggie 3.7i, weiss media server, synology has box, acoustic revive distribution boxes and transparent cables with big heavy network boxes, my knowledge is limited. The computer age is too much to keep in line with. When you have a bit of spare time, can you tell me the order of your preference for locating the stillpoints.

I dont possess a CD player.

do you also advocate 3 or 4 stillpoints under each component.

thanks in advance
 

hifial

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Apr 7, 2013
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Start with your Acoustic Revive Distribution Box. Try three Stillpoints at first.

Then try three Stillpoints under each of the speaker cable network boxes. You may or may not have a worthwhile gain here. You should but it depends. YMMV.

The next choices are a toss up.

If the Synology is a NAS and you are using it to stream your music files to the Weiss Media Server then you might went to try that next, again three.

Otherwise try the Weiss next.

On the DCS stack try the clock first then move to the DAC. Use three Stillpoints. On the DAC put one under each transformer then one across them to balance the DAC. Use a fourth if needed or if you get a sonic benefit from the fourth one.

Ideally you would use Stillpoints under your speakers right after the Distribution Box/Power Conditioner etc and before the other places. But the Mini are not what you could use on the Maggie 3.7. You would need the Ultra SS. I use them under my B&W 802D in place of the spikes with great results. Stillpoints make adapters for most speakers so that the Stillpoints are threaded into the speakers in place of the speakers footers/spikes.

I just noticed you do not mention your amp or preamp. Depending on them you might want to put three under one or both before the Synology/Weiss etc.

Though I got great results under my amp with the Minis, I got additional worthwhile benefits by going to the Ultra SS instead.

Hope this helps.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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There are plenty of us with different levels of patience & perseverance.

I lack both to some degree. At age 68 I am not that energetic as in my younger days.

If I may skljesus, I'd like to give a different solution, get rid of the Stillpoints. Given your experience does coupling the chassis of any equipment to hard metal points make sense? The claim is that by loosely connecting two bodies of hard metal, mechanical vibrations from your equipment is magically dissipated and passed through to whatever is under these footers. I'm not physicist or a mechanical engineer but I don't see any evidence or even remote possibility of any resonance to magically jump from your equipment to pieces steel points or plates pressing hard to its underside, if anything it should make the matter worse. 2nd claim is that somehow the loose connection between the two halves of these footers will help with this dissipation of mechanical energy. First of all you must be living on top of a live volcano and have considerable seismic activity for your equipment to move that much, even then how does this type of lateral movement counteract the negative effects of hard metal discs, balls, etc. against the chassis?

If I had to pick the single worst tweak around today I'd pick still points. Try it for yourself, put it anywhere you want and the effect would be the same, hardening of sound, etched miss, loss of tonal resolution and some forward boom boom at the bottom.

david
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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If I may skljesus, I'd like to give a different solution, get rid of the Stillpoints. Given your experience does coupling the chassis of any equipment to hard metal points make sense? The claim is that by loosely connecting two bodies of hard metal, mechanical vibrations from your equipment is magically dissipated and passed through to whatever is under these footers. I'm not physicist or a mechanical engineer but I don't see any evidence or even remote possibility of any resonance to magically jump from your equipment to pieces steel points or plates pressing hard to its underside, if anything it should make the matter worse. 2nd claim is that somehow the loose connection between the two halves of these footers will help with this dissipation of mechanical energy. First of all you must be living on top of a live volcano and have considerable seismic activity for your equipment to move that much, even then how does this type of lateral movement counteract the negative effects of hard metal discs, balls, etc. against the chassis?

If I had to pick the single worst tweak around today I'd pick still points. Try it for yourself, put it anywhere you want and the effect would be the same, hardening of sound, etched miss, loss of tonal resolution and some forward boom boom at the bottom.

david

I've never tried SP and won't for the money charged, but they do dissipate vibration as the first ball bearing the component sits on is on top of 4 other bearings, which are surrounded by a delrin collar, the interface of the 4 BBs with the delrin collar is where the vibration is dissipated. Google stillpoints under images, there will be diagrams, photos, etc. These aren't meant for low-frequency vibration like footfalls, traffic, etc, but for higher frequency microvibration. IME dealing with vibration requires some trial and error and is subject to personal preference as all sorts of effects can be realized.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I've never tried SP and won't for the money charged, but they do dissipate vibration as the first ball bearing the component sits on is on top of 4 other bearings, which are surrounded by a delrin collar, the interface of the 4 BBs with the delrin collar is where the vibration is dissipated. Google stillpoints under images, there will be diagrams, photos, etc. These aren't meant for low-frequency vibration like footfalls, traffic, etc, but for higher frequency microvibration. IME dealing with vibration requires some trial and error and is subject to personal preference as all sorts of effects can be realized.

Please show me any real scientific evidence that a ball bearing or steel plate pressing up into the chassis of equipment dissipates anything, not just some random drawings by the manufacturer. I've done more than looking at some random drawings with no proof of concept, I've had them and proven to the users exactly how they affect the sound. What's the difference ramming a bearing or steel plate into your chassis sitting on a small piece of Delrin or wood or plastic, it will have the same negative effect on the sound Dave?

Where's the calculation on how much movement one needs to dissipate high frequency micro vibration? How do you just target that frequency universally with a ballbearing? Edit- If this theory has any validity there should be some science behind it, what is it?

david
 
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DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Please show me any real scientific evidence that a ball bearing or steel plate pressing up into the chassis of equipment dissipates anything, not just some random drawings by the manufacturer. I've done more than looking at some random drawings with no proof of concept, I've had them and proven to the users exactly how they affect the sound. What's the difference ramming a bearing or steel plate into your chassis sitting on a small piece of Delrin or wood or plastic, it will have the same negative effect on the sound Dave?

Where's the calculation on how much movement one needs to dissipate high frequency micro vibration? How do you just target that frequency universally with a ballbearing? Edit- If this theory has any validity there should be some science behind it, what is it?

david

Lol, don't ask me, I have nothing to do with stillpoints. Just pointing out they do have a theory behind their design, but I'm certainly not saying anything whatsoever about their actual performance because I have no idea... if you want to know more I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Lol, don't ask me, I have nothing to do with stillpoints. Just pointing out they do have a theory behind their design, but I'm certainly not saying anything whatsoever about their actual performance because I have no idea... if you want to know more I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer.

Try a set Dave, you won't need to contact anyone after that :).

david
 

microstrip

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Stillpoints, Nordost Fur and most of these similar mechanical couplers create an asymmetrical path to vibration, sometimes significantly changing the original tonality of equipment. Wether it is an improvement or not is a subjective question, depending on system and user preferences. In my limited experience they do more bad than good - I have listened to more than one system completely ruined by these devices. But many people I respect tell me they prefer the sound of their system using them.
 

PeterA

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Stillpoints, Nordost Fur and most of these similar mechanical couplers create an asymmetrical path to vibration, sometimes significantly changing the original tonality of equipment. Wether it is an improvement or not is a subjective question, depending on system and user preferences. In my limited experience they do more bad than good - I have listened to more than one system completely ruined by these devices. But many people I respect tell me they prefer the sound of their system using them.

This has been my experience. They do change the sound of the equipment. I've heard many stories from people who had many of these Stillpoints under gear and eventually removed them completely from their systems. I agree, however, that it is subjective and some might like their effect.
 

Mike Lavigne

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This has been my experience. They do change the sound of the equipment. I've heard many stories from people who had many of these Stillpoints under gear and eventually removed them completely from their systems. I agree, however, that it is subjective and some might like their effect.

the whole subject matter of footers, casework, racks, floors and decoupling/grounding/mass loading can be mystifying simply because there are so many different contexts.

it all starts with how the gear manufacturer lays out and assembles the boards and casework. some use solid billets and others bent metal, and other include some wood or ply.

when there are multiple 'passive' compliant forces all contributing to the overall 'effect' on the performance how can we isolate one product and assign a predictable characteristic to it?

you simply have to try stuff and listen.

personally I have found a few cases where Stillpoints did seem to really work. but those were where they were designed into a turntable plinth.

I've not 'preferred' them as random choices as a footer so far in my fairly limited experience. YMMV
 

skljesus

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Jun 18, 2016
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stllpoints

Try a set Dave, you won't need to contact anyone after that :).

david

Hi David,

My equipment is listed above, in your opinion David how would you go about positioning the stillpoints.


i have stillpoint 9 minis
8 ultra ss which are already committed under the magnepans.
then i have 4 sets of 4 units each of alto extremo.
please let me have your views
thanks in advance
 

skljesus

New Member
Jun 18, 2016
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it would work well if one tried one set at a time. But this way the analysis would take very very long. And thats not practical
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi David,

My equipment is listed above, in your opinion David how would you go about positioning the stillpoints.


i have stillpoint 9 minis
8 ultra ss which are already committed under the magnepans.
then i have 4 sets of 4 units each of alto extremo.
please let me have your views
thanks in advance

David's answer I am sure would be that he wouldn't recommend them

I used them extensively in my system for about a year and it wasn't until I removed them that I was able to identify the negatives. As a result I went in a different direction and now use Critical Mass Systems racks which IMO perform far more superiorly to Still points, I had a total of 12 Ultra 6's and 18 Ultra 5's under my gear before I got off the bandwagon

http://www.criticalmasssystems.com
 

bonzo75

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Get used shun mook diamond resonators if you can find them, I sold off my stillpoints immediately after hearing them, they are also better than SRA, just put them on normal wooden planks and enjoy bliss.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
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Utah
Hi David,

My equipment is listed above, in your opinion David how would you go about positioning the stillpoints.


i have stillpoint 9 minis
8 ultra ss which are already committed under the magnepans.
then i have 4 sets of 4 units each of alto extremo.
please let me have your views
thanks in advance

Hi skljesus,
Steve gave the right answer, I would say again to sell them off but if you must you can try them under anything that you want, it won't make a difference.

david
 

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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Get used shun mook diamond resonators if you can find them, I sold off my stillpoints immediately after hearing them, they are also better than SRA, just put them on normal wooden planks and enjoy bliss.

Ditto here!

BruceD
 

skljesus

New Member
Jun 18, 2016
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And Dave, living in Utah you are fortunate to get a home demo, and money returned if not entirely satisfied .
Such great situations are unheard of where I come from. If you wanted to buy a modest house or a big house, it's cash on the table before you can move in. Indeed you are privileged in Utah. Thank your lucky stars.
 

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