What are the best options for electrical solution for new home construction?

microstrip

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That one's more complicated. Real Southwire Romex® has an advantage over the typical electrician conduit wiring job. But other no-name romex like non-metallic cables may not share that advantage. The cable needs to have a symmetrical conductor pattern. It's a similar situation to a good balanced interconnect cable. Many of the no-name cables either don't start symmetrical or lose what symmetry during instillation.

I'll get back to my news thoughts on metal conduit installs latter.

IMHO it is not too complicated unless you use too thick wire or very long runs, although the electrician found that I was crazy! For those not knowing one of the critical points is closely twisting neutral and live separately from the earth wire - something I could not find in commercial wires. See the figure from the paper: (lowest induced voltage means less noise)
 

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DaveC

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Yes, twist the hot/neutral with a drill then wrap the ground wire around the twisted pair in the opposite direction so the ground crosses the other wires at an angle. Or just leave the ground separate, it's not quite as nice but better than having it run parallel to the other wires.
 

es347

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For an experienced electrician and even a DIY'er like me running 10g wire in a 20 amp circuit is a trivial difference, and many receptacles can take up to 8g wire. I'd definitely go with 10g wire.

..well there you go...case closed ;)...I found some stranded 2c w/grd that was shielded. Granted it was 12ga, not 10 but I ran it from a 20A breaker in my panel...it feeds two hospital grade Hubbell duplexes. I feel like I'm pretty much good to go...IMO of course..
 
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DaveC

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..well there you go...case closed ;)

Yup, if you can't bend 10g wire time to get a gym membership!

Once you've dealt with really large gauge wire 10g seems kinda easy...

I do agree with Folsom on the larger boxes though, if you don't have a lot of experience the bigger boxes make it much easier.
 

es347

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Yup, if you can't bend 10g wire time to get a gym membership!

Once you've dealt with really large gauge wire 10g seems kinda easy...

I do agree with Folsom on the larger boxes though, if you don't have a lot of experience the bigger boxes make it much easier.

..and you seem to be implying that I haven't dealt with heavy gauge cable right?
 

Speedskater

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On power line twisting. Another froum had part of a thread on twisting cables. Some frowned on using drills. Something about it would untwist the individual conductors. In any case only 3 twists per foot (1 twist per 10cm) are needed for electrical reasons. But more may be added for mechanical purposes (like keeping it together). For the Safety Ground/Protective Earth a lazy spiral in the opposite direction might be good. Or just tape the SG/PE to the twisted pair.

(note: still thinking about the metal conduit thing)
 

Speedskater

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Another paper on the 'Conduit Transformer'

Theory and Practice – By Dale Shirk

Posted March 17, 2010 by Acct Admin & filed under Interconnect, SynAudCon Library.
http://www.synaudcon.com/site/articles/the-conduit-transformer/

But down the page , he writes:
Test samples of cable were all 100 feet long and included the following: -Flat 12/2 Romex which is normally used in US residential wiring. It has two insulated current carrying conductors inside an oval shaped plastic sheath with a bare ground wire between them held loosely in place with paper fillers. Typically the ground is one gauge smaller than the current conductors.

That non-metallic doesn't sound like Southwire Romex® and I haven't seen a smaller Safety Ground wire in decades.
 

Bruce B

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I would use JPS in wall wiring; it's twisted which is a big bonus. I don't know enough about the SurgeX, but it may be a good solution for protection. It's power conditioning qualities in normal form are underwhelming; can't speak for any possible degradation since I haven't used the panel version or seen inside of it. I'm not a fan of isolation transformers either. I'm not a fan of regenerators.

*JPS Labs in-wall wiring
*Don't use GFCI breakers, good call.
*Furutech receptacles are great, as mentioned.
*Grounding rod location has no relation since it has to be bonded at the houses panel for code. However if you can treat the soil there are benefits; lowered noise induced by ground.


+1..... as Mike said... PITA to work with, but it wasn't my problem. Electrician crimped, soldered gold spades to each. Also as stated above, you need extra deep boxes.

Also, my Equi=tech has 2 circuits with EMI/RFI filtering
 

Mike Lavigne

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+1..... as Mike said... PITA to work with, but it wasn't my problem. Electrician crimped, soldered gold spades to each. Also as stated above, you need extra deep boxes.

Also, my Equi=tech has 2 circuits with EMI/RFI filtering

my Equi=tech has 3 circuits with EMI/RFI filtering; two for the two bass tower subwoofer amp pairs, and one for my digital front end. seems to limit back fill of digital noise.
 

DaveC

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DaveC

Which SurgeX wall panel do you recommend?

For a home system likely the smallest one they offer. SurgeX is installed in Carnegie Hall, Yankee Stadium, etc. and not as commonly installed in residential environments, but it has a lot of nice features.



I don't know enough about the SurgeX, but it may be a good solution for protection. It's power conditioning qualities in normal form are underwhelming; can't speak for any possible degradation since I haven't used the panel version or seen inside of it. I'm not a fan of isolation transformers either. I'm not a fan of regenerators.

If you would have the chance to test it in a noisy environment you'd think differently, at RMAF 2014 it made a massive difference vs the EquiTech that was being used in the VSA room, and I can say with some surety they wouldn't have won TAS's Best in Show award without it. In 2015 it won multiple awards with Vapor/Lampi, and together with the room treatments made for a very good showing with no power or room acoustics issues, which is pretty rare to accomplish!

The big thing about the SurgeX is it never does any harm, you can plug the biggest amp around into it and it won't limit dynamics... in dozens of systems I've tested it in so far. It always makes an improvement... something that can rarely be said about any other power conditioner.
 

Folsom

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I know the exact reasons why it works that way, for the rack mount unit. I'm just saying I don't know what's in the wall mount unit.

Yes it does work. And I suppose my standards aren't relevant given that most companies power conditioning is a joke so my expectations are in the stratosphere by comparison. I would take the SurgeX over many conditioners; but things can be better :)

Funny you say all that too, I thought Axpona mostly sounded like noise from the AC destroyed the whole show.
 

Kingsrule

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Question:

Not sure if it will make any difference in noise but:

If I'm running 3 10/2 round Romex lines, approx 40' each, is it better to keep them parallel to each other from panel to rack or to lightly twist the 3 lines together and run them as a "single" line?
 

RogerD

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I would use at least 10 ga or even 8 but these can be difficult to pull in. The larger the better especially in runs over 40 ft. The 10 ga will use a 20 amp breaker which is what you want.
 

Kingsrule

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Please look at my question

BTW 10ga is certified for 30amp breaker
 

RogerD

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DaveC

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I wouldn't twist them, but twisting the hot/neutral in each run is a good idea, but impossible to do with standard romex, you'd need to buy THHN wire, twist it and place it in a conduit. Ground would be run along side or wrapped around the twisted pair in the opposite direction.

Another better option since 40 ft is a ways is to run a subpanel as close to the system as possible using a single ~50A run, then run 120V/20A lines from the subpanel, the advantage being each run is much shorter, the grounds combine much closer together so less noise. Another way to accomplish a similar result would be to have a power distributor on each line with a binding post for ground connection and use a ground cable to combine the grounds of all three circuits right at the distributors.
 

DaveC

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OR just buy JPS in wall wire.

I asked them a couple years ago about carrying their in-wall wire, they were demeaning and condescending on the phone. Basically told me to f-off and buy it at full retail from their existing retailers.
 

Folsom

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Ouch. It's still a nice product. They probably thought you were a DIY'er looking to score or something. Too bad, I'm sure you would've sold many feet.
 

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