How's does Spectral compare to Soulution ? Sound wise

It's always great to learn stuff

Although neutral it would seem is meant by audiophile to represent a more objective reality which might be a scientific use of the term
Neutral also in an used in artistic or colour context has. meaning such as bland"

A bland patina can colour something as much as any other colour

Of the great systems I have heard, the timbral colour of various instruments "pop" into reality in contrast to other instruments with different timbral colours

Where things become difficult is where u are differentiating true harmonic timbral content with artificial content

To some extent artificial boosting may give some great semblance of reality over a system that bleaches them out

Thus a more coloured system may sound more real than one that fails to deliver the harmonics either real or false

Also you can manipulate the harmonic envelope to enhance certain zones

Plus some artefacts of the recording process which are inherently incongruent with correct harmonic balance of instruments may be down played by some components especially speakers, thus they are less accurate as reproducing transducers but more musical in terms of perceived enjoyment

I still believe "neutral" as an adjective is a two edged sword

Another word might better express what we are seeking which is musical truth

Science objectivism is tricky, as although we are using electronic devices to reproduce music, our hearing and what we perceive is a value judgement and determined to some extent in non linear manner by our ears and brain

For example large amounts of second harmonics is perceived as innocuous, and small amounts of high order harmonics are found by some to be highly objectionable

Scientifically you could say, that the amplifier with low THD is more neutral ie it adds less, that amplifier with high levels of second harmonic distortion

However, it is quite possible in terms of perception that the amplifier with more second order harmonics is deemed more true to life

If we were to judge neutrality in a sceientific metric then virtually no value amplifiers could be considered neutral, as they add large amounts of low harmonic distortion

However in terms of human hearing perception, small quantities of high order harmonics is perceived objectable and unreal by many

So which is more neutral?

Having said all this, may experience of Soulution is they are so low in any distortion, that true timbral colours comes through. I have not experienced spectral so can make no comment on them. I have heard Soulution in a number of contexts. Provided everything is optimised they can be wonderful, however as they add so little patina of their own, everything put through them, must be at its best to hear what they are capable of

I have heard:-

720
700
725
701
520
501
740
745
750
755

I think Spectral and Soulution are on one side of the audio spectrum, with Dart/Ayre on the other. I have not heard both in the same system, but sonic signatures are similar in systems I've heard. Spectral pricing seems more rational however.

KeithR said:

I think Spectral and Soulution are on one side of the audio spectrum, with Dart/Ayre on the other. I have not heard both in the same system, but sonic signatures are similar in systems I've heard. Spectral pricing seems more rational however.

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It's interesting dichotomy
Soulution is high loop feedback and ayre is low/zero loop feedback

This of course means one has higher THD
The other higher TID

SO which is neutral ?

Andrew, that is a lot of experience with Soulution. Did you get the same levels of realism and decay you got with your Lamms and other amps you have tried, like Bakoon etc?

bonzo75 said:

Andrew, that is a lot of experience with Soulution. Did you get the same levels of realism and decay you got with your Lamms and other amps you have tried, like Bakoon etc?

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Thats a good question

Lamms do have wonderful decay and instrument colour

First solid state i heard that did that of valves

Bakoon is more like ayre/soulution cross...uses current mirror versus feedback with open loop circuit, decay is very good

Amazing transparency, but very true to instruments especially string which some solid state amps make a real hash of

Soulution can be amazing, but seems to dive off, if anything is wrong...bakoon seems more set and forget, though the case work is pretty average i will be honest, your paying for the unique circuit...not bling

I love the 700/701, but don't share JV passion for the 501, though JV claims they made changes after i heard the early production version so cannot comment current production

i did hear 501 against 700 and i thought no comparison, 700 much richer and dynamic

i agree with earlier poster that the soulution is silly money...but if u can afford it

However if your not prepared to set it up well, it probably is wasted though

i recently heard the ayre, and was very impressed,

i agree its a tube lovers ss

the Lamm do seem to have something special about them

the fact it will run class a into different impedance is a plus

I have found they are not my favourite on the Morels, in the bass,

On my other speakers they are totally amazing! i was shocked...

However the Soulution like the Bakoon have greater resolution with a sense of ease..a rare feat, both have blindingly powerful bass, and airy highs and warm midrange

It's interesting i have heard both bakoon and soulution on accuton-driver speakers, normally considered 'cold' drivers

the level of detail and richness by both, and bass was stunning!

JV is not wrong

I think the lamm/ayre and bakoon are bargains ... compared with soulution, but soulution is very very good

With the soulution, goldmund and ch precision, you really cannot mix and match and get the best out of them

Cyrill warned me you have to filter the output of the preamps if you use non soulution amps to avoid instability

My understanding is spectral also don't recommend mix and match, but this is just something i read, i have no practical experience with spectral, and others have more experience in this area

ps the phono stages of soulution and Bakoon are outstanding !
i thought Soulution phono even better than their digital imho...ymmv

Interesting that Bakoon phono is so good. The cost is great too.

Sorry to introduce another brand , but why nobody talks about halcro , iirc they are the low distortion champs .

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/806halcro#G6S8iylGecFY3MOP.97

http://www.stereophile.com/content/...ifier-follow-january-2007#SK5d7bTkeMUu1PLm.97

andromedaaudio said:

Sorry to introduce another brand , but why nobody talks about halcro , iirc they are the low distortion champs .

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/806halcro#G6S8iylGecFY3MOP.97

http://www.stereophile.com/content/...ifier-follow-january-2007#SK5d7bTkeMUu1PLm.97

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Ceased operations.... in process of being resurrected

http://halcro.com

I heard they are in business already for quit some time , other owner

http://halcro.com/halcro-reborn/

awsmone said:

T
I love the 700/701, but don't share JV passion for the 501, though JV claims they made changes after i heard the early production version so cannot comment current production

i did hear 501 against 700 and i thought no comparison, 700 much richer and dynamic



With the soulution, goldmund and ch precision, you really cannot mix and match and get the best out of them

Cyrill warned me you have to filter the output of the preamps if you use non soulution amps to avoid instability

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Interesting post. I use the 720 preamp and have recently compared it to the 500 series (I have a 530 integrated on loan which I have tried just as a preamp as it has preamp outputs). Having not heard the 2nd 700 series (i.e. the 725) I wanted to get a feel for the 'revised' Soulution sound. I prefer my 720 - much more detailed and layered.

I'm very interested in your comment about not mixing and matching since I use my 720 to drive CAT (tube) amps with great success. Can you elaborate a bit on this?

MadFloyd said:

Interesting post. I use the 720 preamp and have recently compared it to the 500 series (I have a 530 integrated on loan which I have tried just as a preamp as it has preamp outputs). Having not heard the 2nd 700 series (i.e. the 725) I wanted to get a feel for the 'revised' Soulution sound. I prefer my 720 - much more detailed and layered.

I'm very interested in your comment about not mixing and matching since I use my 720 to drive CAT (tube) amps with great success. Can you elaborate a bit on this?

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So, you use the Soulution to drive the CAT. What happened to your CAT pre? And which phono are you using?

bonzo75 said:

So, you use the Soulution to drive the CAT. What happened to your CAT pre? And which phono are you using?

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The CAT pre is not my cup of tea. I'm using the built in phono of the 720.

MadFloyd said:

Interesting post. I use the 720 preamp and have recently compared it to the 500 series (I have a 530 integrated on loan which I have tried just as a preamp as it has preamp outputs). Having not heard the 2nd 700 series (i.e. the 725) I wanted to get a feel for the 'revised' Soulution sound. I prefer my 720 - much more detailed and layered.

I'm very interested in your comment about not mixing and matching since I use my 720 to drive CAT (tube) amps with great success. Can you elaborate a bit on this?

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Thanks for picking me up on that

your valves amplifiers should be fine as already band limited with their transformers,


Was meant to be referring to some solid state amplifiers which can develop ultrasonic instability with 720 very high frequency response, which can be cut in the menu of the 720 output response

I love those big CAT amps, my other point is in soulution and goldmund your not getting the full benefit of those wide band width circuits by using other components more bandwidth limited, but your the first person i have encountered using 720 with valves great it works so well, my second point is only a bit of "absolutism" and doesn't mean u cannot get great sound with different components, it was a point cyrill made to me when i proposed using lamm m1.2 with 720 some time ago

the 725 has same circuit as your 720, revised power supply and voltage routing, so essential more 720ish

awsmone said:

Thanks for picking me up on that

your valves amplifiers should be fine as already band limited with their transformers,


Was meant to be referring to some solid state amplifiers which can develop ultrasonic instability with 720 very high frequency response, which can be cut in the menu of the 720 output response

I love those big CAT amps, my other point is in soulution and goldmund your not getting the full benefit of those wide band width circuits by using other components more bandwidth limited, but your the first person i have encountered using 720 with valves great it works so well, my second point is only a bit of "absolutism" and doesn't mean u cannot get great sound with different components, it was a point cyrill made to me when i proposed using lamm m1.2 with 720 some time ago

the 725 has same circuit as your 720, revised power supply and voltage routing, so essential more 720ish

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Thank you for responding!

I can upgrade my 720 to 725 (although not inexpensive) which is one reason I am auditioning the 530 - my understanding is the 725 will sound more like the 520 than the 720 (i.e. less analytical, more warm).

It's interesting you got rid of the cat pre, not my cup of tea either

The amplifiers are different and truly some of the greatest valve amplifiers

The phono in the 720/5 is pretty amazing, you would have to spend mega bucks to do better

The 725/701 sound is more dynamic, and more "meat on bones" sound, the instruments seem more "natural " in timbres, and the transparency seems to be more in service of the reality of real instruments, than an end in itself

You may find this too much of a good thing with the Cat amplifiers, and your current 720 with the cat amplifiers may give you the best of both worlds., the 725 might or might not be "egging" the pudding not sure till you try
There is no doubt the 701/501 and 725 together is an improvement over the previous versions in every way when used together, but maybe not in your situation

I would not be rushing to change ??

Have you tried adjusting the bandwidth on the 720?

awsmone said:

It's interesting you got rid of the cat pre, not my cup of tea either

The amplifiers are different and truly some of the greatest valve amplifiers

The phono in the 720/5 is pretty amazing, you would have to spend mega bucks to do better

The 725/701 sound is more dynamic, and more "meat on bones" sound, the instruments seem more "natural " in timbres, and the transparency seems to be more in service of the reality of real instruments, than an end in itself

You may find this too much of a good thing with the Cat amplifiers, and your current 720 with the cat amplifiers may give you the best of both worlds., the 725 might or might not be "egging" the pudding not sure till you try
There is no doubt the 701/501 and 725 together is an improvement over the previous versions in every way when used together, but maybe not in your situation

I would not be rushing to change ??

Have you tried adjusting the bandwidth on the 720?

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Thank you again - I really appreciate your insights on this.

When you refer to bandwidth on the 720, do you mean the input bandwidth that functions like an EQ? If so, yes. I had to change it from 'high' to 'med' on my digital channel for my previous DAC, but now with the Vivaldi I can enjoy the full bandwidth without any issues.

I should add that one of the reasons the 720 works well with the CAT amps is that the wide bandwidth of the Soulution helps with the frequency extremes on the CATs.

andromedaaudio said:

Neutral is good but,
WOW that sounds uncoloured /natural is better .

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Completely agree. That's how I look at it. For me, neutral is about tonal balance. No frequency is emphasized over any other. I find this is sometimes difficult to assess, given a particular room and system. Measurements at the listening seat can help but that is a reflection of the room/system interaction.

In the end, if it sounds natural to me, I no longer hear the system, and the music takes over. That is what I listen for. Neutral tonal balance and transparent equipment, tend to sound more natural to me, assuming a good recording, and that generally gets me closer to the music.

KeithR said:

I think Spectral and Soulution are on one side of the audio spectrum, with Dart/Ayre on the other. I have not heard both in the same system, but sonic signatures are similar in systems I've heard. Spectral pricing seems more rational however.

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Keith, where would you put Pass Class A amps on that audio spectrum?

MadFloyd said:

I should add that one of the reasons the 720 works well with the CAT amps is that the wide bandwidth of the Soulution helps with the frequency extremes on the CATs.

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i'm not sure what you mean here. care to expound?