Sound Galleries SGM 2015

tsaett

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2014
126
178
348
Cologne
It was a balanced L4G5 with Mundorf caps and DSD. The T+A was clearly better, I've had Ed's unit over the summer here for several weeks and had extensive time for comparing.
The big Lampis however might be equal or better than the T+A, but at it's price point the T+A is imho unbeatable. (Plus I need volume control and balanced circuitry, all standard in the T+A)

Thanks for the info Blue, good to not have to worry about another variable. I use La Rosita Landing Modules for footers and a Gold Note Lucca Extra power cable, both suit the T+A well.
Sorry for OT, back to the SGM :)
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Hi Ferrox,
Firstly, it looks like I have to get the Sablon Ethernet cable to complete my loom and like yourself I had the Acoustic Revive when using a Mac mini as source.

My Auralic Aries was a delight to use and I had reservations regarding Roon/Todal/HQPlayer in respect to its user interface, not wanting to get 'bogged down' with constantly searching for titles and delving into artists history or collaborations, the danger being less time to relax and listen.

What I found is that it's as easy if not easier than the LDS software, completely intuitive and once you are happy with a filter/modulator setting within HQPlayer there is no/little need to alter that setting. I have found my preferred setting and no longer use a monitor in my music room, relying on Roon on the iPad to control everything. An additional benefit is the ability to find new music within Tidal when not musically online and add it to your library which then shows up on your Roon library. So, you could be browsing Tidal in your local park, on the bus or at work and adding to your future musical enjoyment.

The SGM 2015 has been a delight to use and once again I offer an open house to those close enough to London to pop over for a listening session.

Blue58

Blue58, thanks! I was..wow..

I came from a computer illiterate guy who took two full days going through 300++ pages of QNAP manual book just to setup the NAS. I bought the NAS more than a year ago and by that time, I have zero knowledge about it. So I spent so much time learning. I get used to LDS now, I might claim that I am the 1st owner in Indonesia who went to Thailand just to purchase the Aries. By that time, it's the closest dealer I can reach to.

I saw on LDS, there's option for Roon but never try that. My friends are more accustomed to Jriver than HQPlayer. That posts another challenge for me. LOL..but I will consider the SGM too.

I have just spend a lot of $$$ for audio stuffs this year. Guess it would take more time before making another investment. There's one more concern as to digital audio / computer audio. I read the article how they came out with the recent model and configurations of SGM. It was like a trial and error experience. I am afraid, the technology will become obsolete in no time. So, when SGM is more mature with its upgrade, it would be the best timing to make the purchase. For the time being, I can still enjoy what Aries could do for me. Do you agree with me?
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
890
675
1,155
London, UK
Blue58, thanks! I was..wow..

I came from a computer illiterate guy who took two full days going through 300++ pages of QNAP manual book just to setup the NAS. I bought the NAS more than a year ago and by that time, I have zero knowledge about it. So I spent so much time learning. I get used to LDS now, I might claim that I am the 1st owner in Indonesia who went to Thailand just to purchase the Aries. By that time, it's the closest dealer I can reach to.

I saw on LDS, there's option for Roon but never try that. My friends are more accustomed to Jriver than HQPlayer. That posts another challenge for me. LOL..but I will consider the SGM too.

I have just spend a lot of $$$ for audio stuffs this year. Guess it would take more time before making another investment. There's one more concern as to digital audio / computer audio. I read the article how they came out with the recent model and configurations of SGM. It was like a trial and error experience. I am afraid, the technology will become obsolete in no time. So, when SGM is more mature with its upgrade, it would be the best timing to make the purchase. For the time being, I can still enjoy what Aries could do for me. Do you agree with me?
Ferrox,
I understand the complete fear of computer audio and honestly most of the stuff on CA goes over my head. The thought of even using a NAS fills me with dread and finding that I can put my 'rarer' CD rips and hi-res on the internal HD of the SGM and enjoy streaming the remainder of my library via Tidal is simply wonderful.

HQPlayer is also simple, just select and forget if, like me, you need to. Regarding the obsolescence of digital audio, well I'm trusting that SGM can be upgraded in the future if needed and the fact that they support the unit via TeamViewer gives me great confidence in their commitment to their customers.

Yes it is an expensive hobby so enjoy your Aries until the time comes to investigate upgrading. Don't forget the music is more important than the HiFi and the Aries does give give you a lot of music for your money.

Blue58
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Hi tsaett, I understand the fuses are internal surface mounted fuses in the T+A and therefore not user replaceable. However, use of a great power cord and footers like Stillpoint minis or in my case Yamamoto MGB-2 makes significant improvement to already superb SQ.
Let everyone know how you get on in the T+A thread.
Just to add, don't use any aftermarket devices on the USB with the T+A.
Cheers
Blue58

I highly recommend using Sablon Audio cables there. Hope I don't sound like a salesman here. I am just sharing my excitement after those cables are fully run in. My two cents worth.
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Ferrox,
I understand the complete fear of computer audio and honestly most of the stuff on CA goes over my head. The thought of even using a NAS fills me with dread and finding that I can put my 'rarer' CD rips and hi-res on the internal HD of the SGM and enjoy streaming the remainder of my library via Tidal is simply wonderful.

HQPlayer is also simple, just select and forget if, like me, you need to. Regarding the obsolescence of digital audio, well I'm trusting that SGM can be upgraded in the future if needed and the fact that they support the unit via TeamViewer gives me great confidence in their commitment to their customers.

Yes it is an expensive hobby so enjoy your Aries until the time comes to investigate upgrading. Don't forget the music is more important than the HiFi and the Aries does give give you a lot of music for your money.

Blue58

Blue58,

Thanks for your encouragement. I have more than 17TB of music files. FLAC, wav, DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 and 1 file of DSD512. It wouldn't be able to fit in the internal HD I guess. Well, I totally agree with you on the music than the HiFi itself. Right now, my systems is pretty scarily real and sometimes, while reading and listening at the same time, it's a bit spooky because I can feel that I am not alone in the room. The musicians are there. :)
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Blue58,

Thanks for your encouragement. I have more than 17TB of music files. FLAC, wav, DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 and 1 file of DSD512. It wouldn't be able to fit in the internal HD I guess. Well, I totally agree with you on the music than the HiFi itself. Right now, my systems is pretty scarily real and sometimes, while reading and listening at the same time, it's a bit spooky because I can feel that I am not alone in the room. The musicians are there. :)

Hi Ferrox,

What is the rest of your system may I ask? Cheers.

Bill
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Hi Ferrox,

What is the rest of your system may I ask? Cheers.

Bill

ZTE modem, Linksys WRT1900AC wifi router, QNAP TVS-871-i7-16GB NAS, 6 x 6TB WD Red NAS, Auralic Aries, iFi Micro USB 3.0, GG Balanced without volume, Aesthetix Eclipse dual mono power supply with remote control, Aesthetix Atlas Signature mono amps, Sonus Faber Toy Tower (my weakest link).

Cables: 20m of Inakustik Referenz LAN Cat7, Sablon Audio Panatela Ethernet, Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva XLR IC, Panatela Reserva USB cables, Tellurium Q Black, JPS Labs Aluminata PC, Acoustics Zen Absolute PC, Acoustics Zen Absolute silver xlr, Acoustics Zen Absolute SC.

External Power supply: SBooster for Linksys wifi router, Hoer wege for Auralic Aries

Racks: Quadraspire, Massif Audio Design platform, Massif Audio Design cable riser, Gryphon Black cube, Soundcare, Shun Mook Magic cube, Cardas Maple cube.

Tubes: each power supply for Aesthetix Eclipse has 2 EL34, 6 12AX7, The Eclipse Linestage has 2 6SN7, 4 6922, 2 12AX7, Atlas mono amp each has 1 6SN7, GG has 1 Tak 274B, 4 KR PX-4. Total 31 tubes.

Fuse: SR Black quantum in SBooster and Hoer wege power supply.

Power strip: SINE Gateway 2
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
ZTE modem, Linksys WRT1900AC wifi router, QNAP TVS-871-i7-16GB NAS, 6 x 6TB WD Red NAS, Auralic Aries, iFi Micro USB 3.0, GG Balanced without volume, Aesthetix Eclipse dual mono power supply with remote control, Aesthetix Atlas Signature mono amps, Sonus Faber Toy Tower (my weakest link).

Cables: 20m of Inakustik Referenz LAN Cat7, Sablon Audio Panatela Ethernet, Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva XLR IC, Panatela Reserva USB cables, Tellurium Q Black, JPS Labs Aluminata PC, Acoustics Zen Absolute PC, Acoustics Zen Absolute silver xlr, Acoustics Zen Absolute SC.

External Power supply: SBooster for Linksys wifi router, Hoer wege for Auralic Aries

Racks: Quadraspire, Massif Audio Design platform, Massif Audio Design cable riser, Gryphon Black cube, Soundcare, Shun Mook Magic cube, Cardas Maple cube.

Tubes: each power supply for Aesthetix Eclipse has 2 EL34, 6 12AX7, The Eclipse Linestage has 2 6SN7, 4 6922, 2 12AX7, Atlas mono amp each has 1 6SN7, GG has 1 Tak 274B, 4 KR PX-4. Total 31 tubes.

Fuse: SR Black quantum in SBooster and Hoer wege power supply.

Power strip: SINE Gateway 2

Hi Ferrox,

Nice system you have there - wait till you upgrade the speakers cos your other kit will fly to the moon and back. How did you find Aries into ifi micro 3.0? Also do you use sbooster with ifi also - I found an lps with ifi 2.0 a must.

Cheers
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Hi Ferrox,

Nice system you have there - wait till you upgrade the speakers cos your other kit will fly to the moon and back. How did you find Aries into ifi micro 3.0? Also do you use sbooster with ifi also - I found an lps with ifi 2.0 a must.

Cheers

Hi Bill, thanks!

Yes my next upgrade would be the speakers and honestly it has to wait for some times because this year alone, I have spent too much on this hobby. LOL..I need to catch my breath before making another purchase.

Previously, I used PS Audio Directstream DAC for few months. I used Totaldac D1 USB cables and was happy with it until one day, one of my friend suggested me to try iFi Micro USB 3.0. Well, it doesn't cost an arm to try so I went ahead with it. I found out that I will actually need 2 USB cables. One from Aries to iFi, and iFi to DAC. While iFi comes with stock USB 3.0 cable and it couldn't fit into PS USB input connector. Luckily, I still have a short printer cable (blushing) and just hooked it up.

Well, even with printer cable, I straightly noticed, the music is smoother, wider sound stage, more distinctive pin point and bass was deeper and textural. I think you should try the iFi Micro USB 3.0, too. After replacing the PS with GG, it's even better. Getting a pair of Sablon Audio panatela USB from Mark Coles is one of the best purchase I made.

I am ordering Hoer wege power supply from Stephan in Germany. He is producing them now. I have both SBooster and Hoer wege and I prefer Hoer wege. First, it looks nicer, long and sleek, doesn't take up much space. Standard size audio rack can accommodate 3 Hoer wege in the same level. Second, the materials inside should be of a higher grade than SBooster. Third, Stephan is a very nice guy. He shares what he is doing including the new thing he will use for my new power supply.

I had a very bad experience with Kempt elektronik in Netherlands. They didn't take the business serious enough, apart from my continuous phone call and very clear emails from beginning, they even confirmed that they're clear with my shipping instructions. But when they shipped it, they forgot everything I asked them to do. I ended up paying ridiculous high import duty for one SBooster power supply. When I confronted them by phone, guess what he told me? 'We received more than 200 hundred emails every day. We can not remember all of them'. There was no apology nor anything but defensive response. So I make it clear, I won't be buying anything from them regardless of how good their products are.

Back to audio stuffs..there are several speakers brands to consider for next upgrade: Franco Serblin Ktema, Rockport Technologies Avior, Audio Solutions Vantage, Wilson Audio Alexia. When I have enough to spend, I'll surely audition them again.
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Hi Bill, thanks!

Yes my next upgrade would be the speakers and honestly it has to wait for some times because this year alone, I have spent too much on this hobby. LOL..I need to catch my breath before making another purchase.

Previously, I used PS Audio Directstream DAC for few months. I used Totaldac D1 USB cables and was happy with it until one day, one of my friend suggested me to try iFi Micro USB 3.0. Well, it doesn't cost an arm to try so I went ahead with it. I found out that I will actually need 2 USB cables. One from Aries to iFi, and iFi to DAC. While iFi comes with stock USB 3.0 cable and it couldn't fit into PS USB input connector. Luckily, I still have a short printer cable (blushing) and just hooked it up.

Well, even with printer cable, I straightly noticed, the music is smoother, wider sound stage, more distinctive pin point and bass was deeper and textural. I think you should try the iFi Micro USB 3.0, too. After replacing the PS with GG, it's even better. Getting a pair of Sablon Audio panatela USB from Mark Coles is one of the best purchase I made.

I am ordering Hoer wege power supply from Stephan in Germany. He is producing them now. I have both SBooster and Hoer wege and I prefer Hoer wege. First, it looks nicer, long and sleek, doesn't take up much space. Standard size audio rack can accommodate 3 Hoer wege in the same level. Second, the materials inside should be of a higher grade than SBooster. Third, Stephan is a very nice guy. He shares what he is doing including the new thing he will use for my new power supply.

I had a very bad experience with Kempt elektronik in Netherlands. They didn't take the business serious enough, apart from my continuous phone call and very clear emails from beginning, they even confirmed that they're clear with my shipping instructions. But when they shipped it, they forgot everything I asked them to do. I ended up paying ridiculous high import duty for one SBooster power supply. When I confronted them by phone, guess what he told me? 'We received more than 200 hundred emails every day. We can not remember all of them'. There was no apology nor anything but defensive response. So I make it clear, I won't be buying anything from them regardless of how good their products are.

Back to audio stuffs..there are several speakers brands to consider for next upgrade: Franco Serblin Ktema, Rockport Technologies Avior, Audio Solutions Vantage, Wilson Audio Alexia. When I have enough to spend, I'll surely audition them again.

Hi Ferrox,

Thanks for the info. Sorry for additional clarification - you will use Hoer wege with Aries or ifi or both? It reads like you will use Hoer wege with Aries? I found that the ifi power supply must be upgraded to LPS to yield the optimum performance.
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Hi Ferrox,

Thanks for the info. Sorry for additional clarification - you will use Hoer wege with Aries or ifi or both? It reads like you will use Hoer wege with Aries? I found that the ifi power supply must be upgraded to LPS to yield the optimum performance.

Hi Bill,

Currently I use SBooster to power up Linksys WRT1900AC and Hoer wege for Auralic Aries. I am ordering another two units of Hoer wege from Stephan, one for iFi Micro USB 3.0 and another one for Lumagen Pro 4244. I have given Stephan the detail specification and he is producing them now. :)
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Hi Bill,

Currently I use SBooster to power up Linksys WRT1900AC and Hoer wege for Auralic Aries. I am ordering another two units of Hoer wege from Stephan, one for iFi Micro USB 3.0 and another one for Lumagen Pro 4244. I have given Stephan the detail specification and he is producing them now. :)

Ah got you. The lps on the ifi is quite something I found so that will be great. I haven't owned a Lumagen video processor for many years but loved it in the old days.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
5,413
1,278
E. England
Just a further addendum to Barry's SGM/T&A front end sound
He's always asking me whether the SGM is presenting an analog type sound or bridging the gap to the best analog has to offer
This q is phrased with Barry as an lp skeptic, and me as pro analog as it gets, but me also open to what digital is excellent at doing (unlike those like Ron our friendly co-leader that just can't countenance digital in his system, no matter how good)
My answer to him is that the SGM digital flavour, upscaled to 512 and judiciously scrubbed with HQ, beautifully integrated by the SGM unique process and brought through dynamically with the T&A Dac8, is very analog in many ways
These ways include a noise floor which really doesn't seem to exist (so different from most digital which until now seems to have a noise floor limiting resolution of low level detail to an order wholly worse than analog)
This minimal noise floor really suspends the subliminal disbelief that all other digital in my experience has significantly failed to do in the past, so approximating the analog experience
Also critically there is so much tonal discrimination/variation from one track to another
Again the best analog really allows each album to sound very different from the next, again with digital always sounding homogeneous in the past
The SGM really gets there with the analog world of everything sounding different to everything else
If I was to pick one specific attribute, then it would be the bass
Digital has all the "superior" specs on bass, but vinyl IMHO has always had a more immersive experience in the low end
But, hard for me to admit it, the SGM bass really has the best aspects of analog like bass, not just the overall extension that digital has always been superior at, but a kind of textural aspect that again I've never heard from the best digital otherwise
So, the SGM is truly approximating what makes so many of us stay loyal to analog for

I still maintain the view that the SGM can't be accidentally mistaken for analog, it's after all a digital box of tricks
But no doubt that the sense of cognitive ease it creates I've ONLY ever experienced with good analog, NEVER with any other digital (although my current Eera cdp, and Marantz CD12/DA12, both come close)
And for that outcome, maybe this answers Barry's q
And more importantly makes it a more critical upgrade for me as an analog fanatic than a new tt
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Just a further addendum to Barry's SGM/T&A front end sound
He's always asking me whether the SGM is presenting an analog type sound or bridging the gap to the best analog has to offer
This q is phrased with Barry as an lp skeptic, and me as pro analog as it gets, but me also open to what digital is excellent at doing (unlike those like Ron our friendly co-leader that just can't countenance digital in his system, no matter how good)
My answer to him is that the SGM digital flavour, upscaled to 512 and judiciously scrubbed with HQ, beautifully integrated by the SGM unique process and brought through dynamically with the T&A Dac8, is very analog in many ways
These ways include a noise floor which really doesn't seem to exist (so different from most digital which until now seems to have a noise floor limiting resolution of low level detail to an order wholly worse than analog)
This minimal noise floor really suspends the subliminal disbelief that all other digital in my experience has significantly failed to do in the past, so approximating the analog experience
Also critically there is so much tonal discrimination/variation from one track to another
Again the best analog really allows each album to sound very different from the next, again with digital always sounding homogeneous in the past
The SGM really gets there with the analog world of everything sounding different to everything else
If I was to pick one specific attribute, then it would be the bass
Digital has all the "superior" specs on bass, but vinyl IMHO has always had a more immersive experience in the low end
But, hard for me to admit it, the SGM bass really has the best aspects of analog like bass, not just the overall extension that digital has always been superior at, but a kind of textural aspect that again I've never heard from the best digital otherwise
So, the SGM is truly approximating what makes so many of us stay loyal to analog for

I still maintain the view that the SGM can't be accidentally mistaken for analog, it's after all a digital box of tricks
But no doubt that the sense of cognitive ease it creates I've ONLY ever experienced with good analog, NEVER with any other digital (although my current Eera cdp, and Marantz CD12/DA12, both come close)
And for that outcome, maybe this answers Barry's q
And more importantly makes it a more critical upgrade for me as an analog fanatic than a new tt

SoM,

Many thanks for your insights and observations. What is interesting is that during the SGM development program, we picked up quite early on that the bass texture was a sonic quality that was previously pretty much hidden when playing red book bit perfect, but which manifested itself with HQP Player doing upsampling. The intricacy of the texture of bass notes since this discovery has been very much a discriminating pass fail test for all of the hardware, operating system, and software developments
 

ferrox

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2016
262
55
158
Jakarta, Indonesia
www.primes.asia
Ah got you. The lps on the ifi is quite something I found so that will be great. I haven't owned a Lumagen video processor for many years but loved it in the old days.

Bill, I hope the Hoer wege will be a perfect match for iFi. By the way, if you're into home cinema, you should try this Lumagen Pro. 4K + HDR. I owned previous Lumagen as well as DVDO top of the line. Nothing is close to this new model. :)
 

marslo

VIP/Donor
May 2, 2014
953
673
605
64
Poland
Hi guys,

I spent yesterday nearly 2 hours with Geoffrey Armstrong in his Sound Galleries to audition SGM server and especially DSD 512 fs files.
Geoff kindly prepared the system consisting of Duo Omega G2 horns( my former speakers) but instead of normal 231 subs he installed... big basshorns from Trio series.
Then we had the amplification from Audiopax( pre and monoblocks) , the front end was SGM connected with Tellurium usb to T+A DAC8 DSD.
On the server both HQPlayer and Roon were installed , Geoffrey presented to me Roon capabilities which are really impressive, especially as far as informations about the artist, recording and related items are concerned.
SGM was equipped with 1TB SSD and the files were transfered a day before from NAS.
I selected well known pieces of music of different genres for audition : Cassandra Wilson for vocals, Count Basie for swing jazz and Scheherazade the 4th mouvement for classical .
All albums were standard RB resolution , transcoded then with HQ Player to dsd 512 and played with T+A DAC.
In the beginning the sound lacked of integration for me, so Geoffrey changed setting of basshorn and reduced the deep bass a bit.

Now I must say that I am in the camp of those who prefer music in native format , be it PCM RB, hirez or DSD.
I believe the less signal is manipulated, the better is the sound.
So I was sceptical about all this 512 fs story and its supremacy over native formats.
However;)
Already Cassandra Wilson presentation showed outstanding level of transparency and fluidity .The timbre was to dark for me and then Geoff changed basshorn settings, in a good way.
With Scheherazade I discovered very precise and deep stage with resolve, selective and smooth sound on the dark backround.
Ok , I said, but do you have on SSD any Fone native dsd recording , my beloved files?
Hi did and first we played Stradivari violin in 512 fs, transcoded from native 64fs.
Then HQ Player was switched off and the music was reproduced by the DAC in the native form.
And you know what?
It was no contest, the native lacked of transparency, precision and resolution.
The only thing which was still there was the timbre, but the whole presentation was blurred compared to 512 fs.
So , I wil be back home next week with the homework to upgrade my Lampi board to 512 fs and prepare myself for the audition of SGM at home , most probably after Warsaw Audio Show in the beginning of November.
In the end we played some pop and rock music a bit louder , Speed Demon by Michael Jackson from RB material sounded as the best pcm hires.
Of course there are only first impressions after a short listening session, but I am a bit less sceptical about 512 fs and congratulate Geoffrey and his team for their server , it has a big potential .
 
Last edited:

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Hi all,

Just a flag that I have completed the SGM review and will be uploading this to Positive Feedback in the next couple of days in case you wanted a read.

Cheers
 

Elberoth

Member Sponsor
Dec 15, 2012
2,007
253
1,170
Poland
You may not experience the SQ improvement you have heard with the T+A DAC with your Lampi.

The reason T+A sounds so much better in DSD512 mode vs the DSD64, is that it is using a very different processing at that sample rate. This is the (lack of) processing at DSD512 which improves the transprency so remarkably.

With Lampi the difference will be much smaller, due to the fact that the Lampi DAC lacks any D/A conversion on ALL DSD sample rates - DSD64, 128, 256 etc. No digital to analog conversion (only filtering) = transparency.

BTW - I would love to hear the server in my system. Maybe I will be able to persuade Geoffrey to lend it to me, after you are done with it.
 

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