Sound Galleries SGM 2015

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Edward,

I think you have earned it ! Congrats, I'm really happy for you as I have followed your project very closely and know how much work went into it.

Pls remember to PM me if you ever send your server for evaluation to anyone in Poland.

Thanks Adam ! I will sure let you know ahead of time when we have a Polish event planned
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Congratulations on the award!

Quick Questions:

1. If HQ player makes a change to their algorithms, how does it affect one's setup? Do things need to be recalibrated every time?
2. Can the unit support guys who have more than one DAC? If so, how?

Many Thanks Caesar !

Answers to your very good questions

1. Jussi, the author of HQ Player, as far as I have experienced over the last 3 years has never changed the sound signature of existing filters, dither types, and modulators. What he has done from time to time is to introduce new filters and modulators which users can try out and see if it is to their liking. The sound signature of any existing set up does not change significantly from release to release except for a lowering of the noise floor sometimes as his code gets better optimised.

2. Switching between USB DAC's can be relatively simple as long as the USB driver modules do not conflict and allows the different drivers to be installed on the operating system.

The appropriate driver is selected by going to the HQ Player desktop window and opening the settings window and then choosing the appropriate previously installed driver from the drop down list.

The problem comes when the USB drivers of different DAC's use modules with similar file names and then there is a driver installation conflict. In this case, one has to fully uninstall the driver of the DAC you are switching from, and install the driver you are switching to.

Which DAC's might you want to have in your system ?
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Thanks, EuroDriver - makes sense. As for me, I am still saving $$$ for a reference DAC The problem is that the harder I work, the faster my wife and kids spend it. Just as I'm ready to pay the bills from December, my wife is already telling me how nice it would be to get a way for President's Day in February...

In my very incomplete search so far for a "musical" DAC, I have it narrowed down to Chord Dave and TotalDac. Although, I have not auditioned them closely, I definitely like them better than the over-hyped, yet severely analytical Berkeley Ref or the uber expensive stuff like dCS and Esoteric Grandioso. Of course, there may be something else that I am unaware of that comes out, as well.

Any thoughts on sonic signature differences of DAVE vs. TotalDac? Thanks
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Thanks, EuroDriver - makes sense. As for me, I am still saving $$$ for a reference DAC The problem is that the harder I work, the faster my wife and kids spend it. Just as I'm ready to pay the bills from December, my wife is already telling me how nice it would be to get a way for President's Day in February...

In my very incomplete search so far for a "musical" DAC, I have it narrowed down to Chord Dave and TotalDac. Although, I have not auditioned them closely, I definitely like them better than the over-hyped, yet severely analytical Berkeley Ref or the uber expensive stuff like dCS and Esoteric Grandioso. Of course, there may be something else that I am unaware of that comes out, as well.

Any thoughts on sonic signature differences of DAVE vs. TotalDac? Thanks

The DAVE has lots of detail, the TotalDAC has wonderful tonality and density. The new Aqua Formula is a must audition as well
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
The DAVE has lots of detail, the TotalDAC has wonderful tonality and density. The new Aqua Formula is a must audition as well

Thank you so much! Never heard of the Aqua - will definitely check it out.

Which of the 3 has the best bass / dynamics for guys who like to rock out?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Thank you so much! Never heard of the Aqua - will definitely check it out.

Which of the 3 has the best bass / dynamics for guys who like to rock out?

For foot taping, and rocking, the price performance of the T+A DAC 8 DSD is very good.

We have even thought about building a disco audio version of the SGM because the T+A DAC DSD playing DSD 512 really has great swing which dancers at a club would really love
 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
671
410
Spain
I don't consider that a review.
I only see a lot of specifications.
Ultimately very disapointing reviews from Audiostream and Stereophile.
 
Last edited:

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
I don't consider that a review.
I only see a lot of specifications.
Ultimately very disapointing reviews from Audiostream and Stereophile.

I actually thought the review was precise and to the point. Yes you can hear the difference a 16 K server can make. HQ Player is a very special and capable software. The Roon implementation is great. Home Audition is the way to find out if the SGM is for you.

Having spent some time with Michael, I learned first hand that he spends a lot of time and effort to do a review which he then distils to the key points. I never find myself skimming through one of Michael's reviews.
 
Last edited:

bmichels

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
109
2
260
SGM best music server... even without up-sampling

Thanks to Christoph and Edward, we had today a very interesting meeting listening to the SGM-2015 with several TOL DACs (Aqua Formula, TotalDAC & DAVE) and comparing it to other sources.

All 4 attendee have been convinced by the superiority of the SGM server but... the main surprise, after comparing the SGM-2015 to the SonicTransporter + MicroRendu, without using up-sampling, was that the main interest of the SGM is may be not his upscaling capabilities via HQPlayer, but his quality as a ROON Music server.

It provides indeed a very clean and quiet music flow to the USB DACs, even without up-sampling via HQserver. The Up-sampling being an added bonus to this TOL music server.

IMG_1712.jpg
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,290
767
1,698
Thanks to Christoph and Edward, we had today a very interesting meeting listening to the SGM-2015 with several TOL DACs (Aqua Formula, TotalDAC & DAVE) and comparing it to other sources.

All 4 attendee have been convinced by the superiority of the SGM server but... the main surprise, after comparing the SGM-2015 to the SonicTransporter + MicroRendu, without using up-sampling, was that the main interest of the SGM is may be not his upscaling capabilities via HQPlayer, but his quality as a ROON Music server.

It provides indeed a very clean and quiet music flow to the USB DACs, even without up-sampling via HQserver. The Up-sampling being an added bonus to this TOL music server.

View attachment 30901

BMichels, thanks for sharing. What was your take on the differences between each DAC?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
There was a question posed on the Audiostream review of the SGM about the longevity of the SGM

Regarding ongoing support
Submitted by The Federalist on February 9, 2017 - 8:11pm

I do appreciate the ways you went a big step above the typical server with separate trafos for power and a separate pcb with an oven controlled clock. Thats pretty cool. Kudos for doing it right, versus just grabbing $700 of off the shelf parts and shoving it inside a bling case and asking $10K.

One thing I am curious about, and this always gets in the way of me spending big money on a dedicated audio computer. Is the long term support for the Asus B150M motherboard, the skylake CPU and 1151 chipset.

In general these MB have and related components have a 5 year service life before you start seeing issues with instability and rarely do you see support stretching out much further than 7 years from either ASUS.

Does SGM have a plan in place to support customers who drop this kind of money on a computer for long term support?

The obsolescence life cycle in the computer world is my stumbling block with spending big money on a dedicated audio PC. Curious if you guys are addressing that are forced by certain parts into the same cycle.

This was my reply


The longevity of the SGM 2015 is something we have thought about quite a lot about. We do feel that as far as computational horse power needed for 2 channel PCM and DSD, we have hit a plateau for a while. The advantages of going to DSD 1024, are not obvious to us, there seem to be more drawbacks of 44 MHz data stream, challenges of jitter control and the quantum of ultrasonic noise than the theoretical advantages.

Where we do see developments and improvements is in the playback software. With both Roon and HQ Player, improvements are coming thick and fast. The SGM being the most powerful server on the market, has absolutely no problem to run the new versions for many years to come, and when more horsepower is needed, then a motherboard swap is relatively easy. The nice thing about using a Micro ATX board is that future M-ATX boards can drop right in, even the mounting holes are in exactly the same place ! We will need to install a new back plate, but we manufacture the back plates in house, so easy to do, and low cost for us

As to reliability, the key driver is heat dissipation, and operating temperature. The cooling design has been very over specified, and we don't expect to see any thermally caused shortening of the SGM's service life which we project to be in excess of 8 years.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,414
1,278
E. England
Edward, this reticence to in effect drop big money on a computer, no matter how sophisticated or future proof, is a reservation at least one big audiophile has put to me as a reason not to invest, no matter how good SGM sounds
It's good to know you've over specified from Day 1, can offer an upward path, and the money is on display in superior engineering eg the over specified heat sinks etc
I'm actually in the other camp, I'm looking for a one stop shop option that will do me for life, and SGM exposure at Barry's has sold me on the unit 100%, but I am still cogitating on whether I get into computer audio at all as a died in the wool physical media/totally computer unsavvy individual
I am getting splinters in my ar$e sitting on the fence thinking about all of this
 

bmichels

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
109
2
260
BMichels, thanks for sharing. What was your take on the differences between each DAC?

The AQUA Formula was nice and enjoyable, but to our hears, the DAVE and TotalDAC were the winners, depending your tastes for precision (DAVE) or emotion (TotalDAC). May be the NAGRA HD DAC who was expected to be also there could have won, but the NAGRA could not make it.
 

wisnon

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2011
3,525
635
1,200
Edward, this reticence to in effect drop big money on a computer, no matter how sophisticated or future proof, is a reservation at least one big audiophile has put to me as a reason not to invest, no matter how good SGM sounds
It's good to know you've over specified from Day 1, can offer an upward path, and the money is on display in superior engineering eg the over specified heat sinks etc
I'm actually in the other camp, I'm looking for a one stop shop option that will do me for life, and SGM exposure at Barry's has sold me on the unit 100%, but I am still cogitating on whether I get into computer audio at all as a died in the wool physical media/totally computer unsavvy individual
I am getting splinters in my ar$e sitting on the fence thinking about all of this
LoL

Go on.Dip your toe in...the water's fine.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,414
1,278
E. England
It's the surgery to pull those shards of wood out of my behind I'm fearing the most
Anyone know a willing female who can help?
All my GF tells me is to jump off the bloody fence before I REALLY do myself some damage
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
The AQUA Formula was nice and enjoyable, but to our hears, the DAVE and TotalDAC were the winners, depending your tastes for precision (DAVE) or emotion (TotalDAC). May be the NAGRA HD DAC who was expected to be also there could have won, but the NAGRA could not make it.

Hi. I just have a few questions for you regarding the Aqua Formula.

1) Did you use the XLR outputs? From my experience, as well as others, it sounds significantly better through the XLR.
2) Did it have a significant amount of run in time? I have found that this DAC needs a LOT of time on it to come into it own. A friend has one and the first time I heard it I was NOT impressed. But once it had a lot of burn in it was another DAC. I could not get over how much better it sounded.

I am just checking and not questioning what you heard.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
The AQUA Formula was nice and enjoyable, but to our hears, the DAVE and TotalDAC were the winners, depending your tastes for precision (DAVE) or emotion (TotalDAC). May be the NAGRA HD DAC who was expected to be also there could have won, but the NAGRA could not make it.

Hi. I just have a few questions for you regarding the Aqua Formula.

1) Did you use the XLR outputs? From my experience, as well as others, it sounds significantly better through the XLR.
2) Did it have a significant amount of run in time? I have found that this DAC needs a LOT of time on it to come into it own. A friend has one and the first time I heard it I was NOT impressed. But once it had a lot of burn in it was another DAC. I could not get over how much better it sounded.

I am just checking and not questioning what you heard.
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
Hi. I just have a few questions for you regarding the Aqua Formula.

1) Did you use the XLR outputs? From my experience, as well as others, it sounds significantly better through the XLR.
2) Did it have a significant amount of run in time? I have found that this DAC needs a LOT of time on it to come into it own. A friend has one and the first time I heard it I was NOT impressed. But once it had a lot of burn in it was another DAC. I could not get over how much better it sounded.

I am just checking and not questioning what you heard.

Hi Al,

The Aqua Formula at the Beligium meeting had about 170 hours total running time, so a lot lot less hours than the one you heard in Delaware.

Our Nagra HD, currently in the US, is building up its running hours (300) and will make its way back to Europe for a BMichels to listen to
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Hi Al,

The Aqua Formula at the Beligium meeting had about 170 hours total running time, so a lot lot less hours than the one you heard in Delaware.

Our Nagra HD, currently in the US, is building up its running hours (300) and will make its way back to Europe for a BMichels to listen to

Hi Ed. I am up late here on the east coast. So before I hit the bed...I wonder if the Aqua, no, I am pretty sure the Aqua needed more burn in.

Also from what I have been told about Nagra, 300 hours is still not enough to truly know how it sounds. And until they fully burn in they can sound mediocre at best. I am told the Nagra needs well over 500 hours.
Just saying. Good night err, good day to you.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing