NADAC Player running Roon Multi-Channel @ Quad DSD (DSD256)

Philip O Hanlon · Jun 4, 2016

Very impressed with an early version of Roon playing DSD256 in multi-channel on the upcoming NADAC Player.
We are demoing this in Pelican Hill on the ground floor at T.H.E. Newport Show. Currently we are controlling the NADAC Player / Roon from an iPad and its been booting up super fast & reliable. Thursday & Friday we only played Mahler 3 from Channel Classics, Ivan Fischer conducting the Budapest Festival Orchestra at the Bela Bartok National Concert Hall in Budapest in April 2016 (upcoming release & utterly stunning with a HUGE sound-stage, recording with a DECCA five mic array on a Merging Horus). Giya G2 in front and Giya G3 in the rear, driven by Luxman electronics, no subs.

Brian Moura, Dr. Bruce Brown, John Atkinson, Dr. Steve Williams were among the guests today who had a listen for themselves. Demos are on the half hour.

Tomorrow Saturday, we will add more demo time to assorted multi-channel music, both PCM & DSD.

Hope you can join us,

Philip

Steve Williams · Jun 4, 2016

For my ears the demo that Joe Cali gave was the best demo I saw by any vendor at the show yesterday and the sound coming out of those Vivid G2's was amazing as they handled anything thrown to them

Philip O Hanlon · Jun 4, 2016

Steve Williams said:
For my ears the demo that Joe Cali gave was the best demo I saw by any vendor at the show yesterday and the sound coming out of those Vivid G2's was amazing as they handled anything thrown to them

Thank you Steve,

We appreciate your opinion & look forward to spreading the word on Saturday & Sunday. Unfortunately by the very nature of multi-channel, seating is extremely limited.

Philip

bmoura · Jun 4, 2016

Philip O Hanlon said:
Thank you Steve,

We appreciate your opinion & look forward to spreading the word on Saturday & Sunday. Unfortunately by the very nature of multi-channel, seating is extremely limited.

Philip

It sounds like the expanded Multichannel program be part of the "Music & 4K" sessions (30 min each) on Sat and Sunday at The Show Newport.
I'll drop by to have a listen to the added extra Multichannel music.

Yes, the Mahler 3 recorded by Tom Caulfield (aka "TailSpn" here) in Multichannel DSD 256 via the NADAC was very impressive.

Fitzcaraldo215 · Jun 6, 2016

bmoura said:
It sounds like the expanded Multichannel program be part of the "Music & 4K" sessions (30 min each) on Sat and Sunday at The Show Newport.
I'll drop by to have a listen to the added extra Multichannel music.

Yes, the Mahler 3 recorded by Tom Caulfield (aka "TailSpn" here) in Multichannel DSD 256 via the NADAC was very impressive.

I am also fortunate to have that recording from Tom. Andy Quint of TAS and I heard it on my system. We both say it is without question the finest orchestral recording we have heard. It also happens to be an outstanding performance by Maestro Fischer and the BFO, including my first hearing ever of Gerhild Romberger as the Alto. She was amazing. I look forward to comparing it to the eventual release by Channel Classics.

Philip O Hanlon · Jun 6, 2016

Fitzcaraldo215 said:
I am also fortunate to have that recording from Tom. Andy Quint of TAS and I heard it on my system. We both say it is without question the finest orchestral recording we have heard. It also happens to be an outstanding performance by Maestro Fischer and the BFO, including my first hearing ever of Gerhild Romberger as the Alto. She was amazing. I look forward to comparing it to the eventual release by Channel Classics.

John Atkinson's reaction on Saturday afternoon was "absolutely stunning". Interesting to see both Stereophile & TAS in agreement. Tom Caulfield should take a bow... BTW, its remarkable both in stereo & multi-channel.

Jared Sacks' recording in single DSD with 18 mics will probably sound quite different to Tom's 5 mic Decca tree. Should be interesting.

Fitzcaraldo215 · Jun 7, 2016

Philip O Hanlon said:
John Atkinson's reaction on Saturday afternoon was "absolutely stunning". Interesting to see both Stereophile & TAS in agreement. Tom Caulfield should take a bow... BTW, its remarkable both in stereo & multi-channel.

Jared Sacks' recording in single DSD with 18 mics will probably sound quite different to Tom's 5 mic Decca tree. Should be interesting.

My discussions with Tom Caulfield, who I consider a good friend, indicate it might have some superficial similarities to the old Decca Tree, hence the reference. But, he told me it was a pure ITU 5-mike configuration using new, advanced mikes, and that the mikes were deployed in close proximity to and on the same mike booms as Jared Sacks' of Channel Classics.

Kal Rubinson · Jun 15, 2016

The M3 under discussion is a remarkable recording and there have been questions about it and its potential availability. Tom Caulfield has permitted me to quote some of his comments:

This BFO Mahler 3 was a Channel Classics recording session using two parallel recording systems, microphone selections and alignments. The objective was to continue with the proven DSD64 Channel Classics/BFO recording kit and technique, while also yielding a surround optimized DSD256 recording that could potentially be offered as an additional Channel Classics product.

The Channel Classics DSD64 recording is a multi-mic, analog mixed, stereo and surround compatible recording, using the proven Channel Classics BFO DPA/Sennheiser/Schoeps mic arrangement, analog mixer, and Grimm AD-1 DSD64/Pyramix converter recording system. The second was a purest ITU alignment five channel surround optimized recording using three DPA 4041SP (front) plus two DPA 4006A (surround) microphones and Horus/Pyramix recording system operating at DSD256. Jared did the session producing, and with Tom Peters, the engineering for the multi mic, and I did the engineering for the surround. The parallel recordings protected the enormous investment in the session, yet produced session takes that offered different engineering approaches in recording the music. We did the same parallel recording process with the earlier Mahler 7 sessions, with somewhat different results due to microphone placement.

What's not apparent to people hearing the surround recording, is both the nature of a orchestra recording session (as opposed to a orchestra concert recording), and this surround recording in particular. An orchestra recording session is a complex creative choreography between more than one hundred musicians, the conductor (Ivan Fischer) and the producer (Jared Sacks). Like all BFO/Ivan Fischer recordings, even though they're simultaneously performing in concert in the same time period, the piece itself, phrasing, and timing are reinvestigated in the minutest detail, then painstakingly executed in multiple takes. That process is not complete until the final editing, review, and re editing are finished. This surround recording is unedited, and not commercially releasable. It does not represent either Ivan's or Jared's artistic judgements of the finished Mahler 3 recording project. In its present form, it's simply the best takes (judged by me, a non musician) of the three passes of each movement, stitched together to form the complete piece. It's like recording a concert, mistakes and all.

It remains to be seen what Jared decides to do with this surround optimized version, which Channel Classics owns. His original thinking was to do a rough edit, to at least preserve the conductors artistic wishes, and offer it as a download. It is special sounding, primarily due to the DPA4041SP mics and their closer placement to the orchestra. It works in surround due to the spaciousness cues that the five channels present, enhancing the depth of the orchestra, rather than being hindered by it when collapsed to stereo.

......................................................This is a remarkable recording primarily because Jared supported the opportunity, and mic placement, and it being surround. Those DPA 4041SP's are the key to the sound, just like the Neumann M-50 in Decca Tree of old. We'd like to continue these parallel recordings in future BFO projects if they benefit Channels prosperity.

Philip O Hanlon · Jun 15, 2016

Kal Rubinson said:
The M3 under discussion is a remarkable recording and there have been questions about it and its potential availability. Tom Caulfield has permitted me to quote some of his comments:

Bravo ! Nice write-up Kal.

My thanks to Jared & Tom. This is the same recording that John Atkinson described in his Newport Show coverage of our multi-channel DSD256 demo "...may well have been the finest recorded orchestral sound I have experienced."

We hope to play this again at RMAF.

Philip

Fitzcaraldo215 · Jun 15, 2016

It seems quite a number of us who are Mch fans, like Tom Caulfield, Kal, Andy Quint and me, already know what Mch can do. It is very special. And, Mch is one absolutely key part of the reason this recording is as good as it is. Tom, the engineer, really does not like the idea of it being mixed down for stereo. But, we all know there are commercial realities in dealing with traditionalist audiophiles.

It appears even John Atkinson, an avid stereo recordist himself, agrees that it is a phenomenal recording, though he is not a vocal advocate for Mch, and though he continues to employ Kal, who does a phenomenal job of covering the Mch scene.

One can speculate that it was the DSD256, the mikes, the minimalist mike layout or someting else. But, one is just not going to hear all the very special magic this recording has unless one hears it in Mch.

All the guys I mentioned, Tom, Kal, Andy and myself, but also including Jared Sacks of Channel, have all been through the system upgrade process many times with our stereos. We have all wondered, given our live concert experience, why stereo just could not get us much closer to the live concert sound we all know and love. This recording, outstandingly great as it is in Mch, still does not do that totally perfectly. But, it absolutely raises the bar in terms of what can be achieved in terms of greater reproduced faithfulness to the sound of live music. If you know of a better stereo recording in any medium that does that better than this, I would seriously want to know what that might be after you have heard this recording in Mch, as was intended in its engineering.

Those of us who embrace the advantages of Mch for music, as this recording demonstrates, really do not relate to the normal audiophile, who subliminally is seeking someting better, something closer to live but who continues on the stereo path. We, the Mch devotees, have concluded that the stereo model limits us, no matter how much is paid for equipment, no matter how much time is devoted to tweaking, etc. We do get it based on our own experience with audio, but we continue to wonder why so many audiophiles limit themselves to stereo if they are seeking the ultimate in sound. This recording in 5.0 raises that dilemma once again, as will be quite obvious if you get a chance to hear it in Mch.

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NADAC Player running Roon Multi-Channel @ Quad DSD (DSD256)

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