Horn Speakers at Munich High End 2016

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Its best to quantify cheap electronics so we know the category you're referring to, sub 1k, 5k or 10k for amp+pre or integrated model? Depending on the brand they're not all the same and more expensive parts don't necessarily improve anything and at times can sound worse. IME many (too many!) of high priced (10k+ to ?) branded, extolled electronics have little in common with music or natural sound and are mostly about hifi so price isn't an indicator of good or bad sound.

Getting back to horn speakers, the same is true, sum of parts are not a guarantee for success as one can see from the many high priced TAD, GIP & Gotto based modern horn speakers that don't perform properly. Blending compression drivers and cone drivers remains a problem for most of the designs and no amount massaging, active, passive or digital can't fix the integration problem. No one that I know is making light and efficient cones to keep up with compression drivers.

david

NAD, I think?

I'm not sure that modern high end horns aren't performing properly according to their designers, but we all have different ideas about that... ;)

I agree wrt compression drivers and cones, but one way to do it is to use lots of cones, recently saw a setup using 8 15s per side in a slot loaded open baffle... Great Planes Audio is making drivers based on old Altec designs and the Acoustic Elegance woofers are really good too. I'd bet the AER Studio Bass driver is also great, but expensive. My speaker is using a custom 4.5" driver with a 2 gram cone that comes out around 105 dB (with horn), and it's true there's really nothing like it on the current market. I add about .5g of varnish to the cone and machine phase plugs for it, it's really impressive! :)

One thing about a true horn speaker, it's like owning an exotic pet... not for everyone without the space, money and fortitude! While often problematic, I do think the application of horn speaker concepts to a smaller home speaker holds a lot of promise. I think some previous attempts have been unreasonably bad (A friend has older AG Unos) but better stuff is around these days. I recently heard the AG Duo Mezzo and thought it was far better than previous attempts. Cessaro, I've heard multiple times but never feel like I can get a good handle on the sound due to their turntable only demo policy and limited material available. I'll have to try to make it to Munich next year, it seems much hornier than RMAF...
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
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995
Utah
NAD, I think?

I'm not sure that modern high end horns aren't performing properly according to their designers, but we all have different ideas about that... ;)

I agree wrt compression drivers and cones, but one way to do it is to use lots of cones, recently saw a setup using 8 15s per side in a slot loaded open baffle... Great Planes Audio is making drivers based on old Altec designs and the Acoustic Elegance woofers are really good too. I'd bet the AER Studio Bass driver is also great, but expensive. My speaker is using a custom 4.5" driver with a 2 gram cone that comes out around 105 dB (with horn), and it's true there's really nothing like it on the current market. I add about .5g of varnish to the cone and machine phase plugs for it, it's really impressive! :)

One thing about a true horn speaker, it's like owning an exotic pet... not for everyone without the space, money and fortitude! While often problematic, I do think the application of horn speaker concepts to a smaller home speaker holds a lot of promise. I think some previous attempts have been unreasonably bad (A friend has older AG Unos) but better stuff is around these days. I recently heard the AG Duo Mezzo and thought it was far better than previous attempts. Cessaro, I've heard multiple times but never feel like I can get a good handle on the sound due to their turntable only demo policy and limited material available. I'll have to try to make it to Munich next year, it seems much hornier than RMAF...

Would love to see some pictures of your speakers! Europe seems to have a very horny thing going on right now but mostly at the fantasy end of the spectrum. Getting back to Frank's believability arguments I haven't heard it in these speakers...

david
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
3,973
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0
NSW Australia
Would love to see some pictures of your speakers! Europe seems to have a very horny thing going on right now but mostly at the fantasy end of the spectrum. Getting back to Frank's believability arguments I haven't heard it in these speakers... david
Which speakers?

It's always going to be the combination of electronics chain, and speakers which determine whether it gets a tick or not - my approach has always been ... right, the system in front of me at this moment is capable of becoming believable, irrespective of what it sounds like just now. What's wrong with it, that's stopping that quality coming through? What needs to be done, to 'fix' it?
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
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995
Utah
Which speakers?

It's always going to be the combination of electronics chain, and speakers which determine whether it gets a tick or not - my approach has always been ... right, the system in front of me at this moment is capable of becoming believable, irrespective of what it sounds like just now. What's wrong with it, that's stopping that quality coming through? What needs to be done, to 'fix' it?

I'm a real horn speaker junkie Frank, I enjoy seeing what people are doing and since I can't hear Dave's system the pictures are the next best thing.

david
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
3,973
3
0
NSW Australia
Not directly related, but I just tracked down the "refrigerator sized" dc10audo Gottenburg Odin speakers - I note a couple of YouTube videos of them in operation - and they're doing some things right, and some things wrong in those particular snapshots. This would be a system issue - something to get one's teeth into ... :D.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Not directly related, but I just tracked down the "refrigerator sized" dc10audo Gottenburg Odin speakers - I note a couple of YouTube videos of them in operation - and they're doing some things right, and some things wrong in those particular snapshots. This would be a system issue - something to get one's teeth into ... :D.

Funny you bring up this speaker, ugly as it is its the only one that I currently have real interest in hearing!

david
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,899
2,141
495
Funny you bring up this speaker, ugly as it is its the only one that I currently have real interest in hearing!

david

I'm friends with the designer, David... showed with him at last RMAF. He was going to bring the Gottenburgs but the horns finish got ruined by the metal shop. Probably for the best as it wasn't in the main hotel and not many people make it over to the other one. In any case, he has some unique ideas I never thought would work out but the truth is his speakers sound great.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
I'm friends with the designer, David... showed with him at last RMAF. He was going to bring the Gottenburgs but the horns finish got ruined by the metal shop. Probably for the best as it wasn't in the main hotel and not many people make it over to the other one. In any case, he has some unique ideas I never thought would work out but the truth is his speakers sound great.

His concepts are sound, have to make a trip to NM one of these days...

david
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
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E. England
David, I could live with these
Definitely on the "ugly beautiful" end of the divide
Why do these appeal to you?
Any idea on price?
 

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