Best Network Architecture for the Ultimate Digital Transport?

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
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What is the best way to set up a network for the best digital? Is optical better than ethernet cat 6/7?

What is the best way to hook up a NAS?
- NAS to Modem or
- Modem + your Router +NAS or
- Modem + your Router + your switch +NAS
- airport express????? how does airport express fit into the network architecture?

What are the best routers and switches out there?

How close should the NAS be to the system? or can it be far away in an office?

What are the best ethernet cables?
 

Fitzcaraldo215

New Member
Nov 3, 2014
394
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0
What is the best way to set up a network for the best digital? Is optical better than ethernet cat 6/7?

What is the best way to hook up a NAS?
- NAS to Modem or
- Modem + your Router +NAS or
- Modem + your Router + your switch +NAS
- airport express????? how does airport express fit into the network architecture?

What are the best routers and switches out there?

How close should the NAS be to the system? or can it be far away in an office?

What are the best ethernet cables?

You can easily go nuts via tangents in computer audiophile threads. The question is do you want to believe any or all of them based on pure, uncontrolled, biased testimonials with no objective proof? Remember that a guy who has invested time, money and effort into upgrades in his network or computer setup is very subconsciously biased about how much that "improves" the sound in his sighted and uncontrolled listening.

Based on a fair bit of background in computers and IT, I am highly skeptical of all that. In computers, "show me the data" are the most important words, because promises are made every day but not delivered on.

You do not need optical Ethernet. It is expensive and it was designed for high RFI/EMI environments, like factories, elevator shafts, etc., or better security or much greater distances than you need at home. Just use copper Cat6a from somebody reputable like Blue Jeans. There is zero objective data indicating glass fiber is any better for audio or any other type of data transmission under normal circumstances in the home or most offices, government agencies, etc. There is also zero objective data indicating any advantage for the outrageously overpriced audiophile cables like AudioQuest, just the usual, unreliable testimonials.

All Ethernet devices should be rated at gigabit speed aka 10/100/1000. There is no need at all for anything special in modems, routers or switches other than that. Again, you will find no hard evidence anywhere to support the notion of "better sound" by using special "audiophile recommended" network gear. You are just moving data via the network, and audio is not high in bandwidth requirements.

The NAS should be just plugged into a switch or switched router along with your computer, not directly to a modem. The NAS can be anywhere in your home via Ethernet. You will seldom need to touch it. No, it should not be remote in an office unless you want to play at typically lower internet speeds and with more network complexity and potential security risks.

The modem is plugged into the external broadband feed and its Ethernet connection is plugged into a router, if that is separate. Often these days, the modem and router are combined into one unit. Then from the router, Ethernet goes to the first port on the switch, assuming you are using a separate switch. A switch is also often combined with the router, but you can always also use a separate one to create more ports or cascade multiple switches to each other. That provides the Internet to all devices on each switch provided you always hook port 1 on each switch to any port on the preceding switch at each step back to the router.

I do not need or trust wireless (or Apple) for music. But, Airport Express would just use your wireless router, I believe. Get one with the highest wifi bandwidth that is compatible with your other wireless devices. Wireless routers are a bit tricky, though, in terms of speed and reliable coverage. I just use the one that came with Fios. It works great, but I do not use it for music, just some iPads, like the one I am using now. I do use an iPad as a remote control for my music PC, but no music flows through it.

Save your money on the network. It offers no sonic advantage. It is just a data mover. Put your money into the audio, the best DAC and playback equipment instead. That is where you will gain a sonic advantage.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
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You can easily go nuts via tangents in computer audiophile threads. The question is do you want to believe any or all of them based on pure, uncontrolled, biased testimonials with no objective proof? Remember that a guy who has invested time, money and effort into upgrades in his network or computer setup is very subconsciously biased about how much that "improves" the sound in his sighted and uncontrolled listening.

Based on a fair bit of background in computers and IT, I am highly skeptical of all that. In computers, "show me the data" are the most important words, because promises are made every day but not delivered on.

You do not need optical Ethernet. It is expensive and it was designed for high RFI/EMI environments, like factories, elevator shafts, etc., or better security or much greater distances than you need at home. Just use copper Cat6a from somebody reputable like Blue Jeans. There is zero objective data indicating glass fiber is any better for audio or any other type of data transmission under normal circumstances in the home or most offices, government agencies, etc. There is also zero objective data indicating any advantage for the outrageously overpriced audiophile cables like AudioQuest, just the usual, unreliable testimonials.

All Ethernet devices should be rated at gigabit speed aka 10/100/1000. There is no need at all for anything special in modems, routers or switches other than that. Again, you will find no hard evidence anywhere to support the notion of "better sound" by using special "audiophile recommended" network gear. You are just moving data via the network, and audio is not high in bandwidth requirements.

The NAS should be just plugged into a switch or switched router along with your computer, not directly to a modem. The NAS can be anywhere in your home via Ethernet. You will seldom need to touch it. No, it should not be remote in an office unless you want to play at typically lower internet speeds and with more network complexity and potential security risks.

The modem is plugged into the external broadband feed and its Ethernet connection is plugged into a router, if that is separate. Often these days, the modem and router are combined into one unit. Then from the router, Ethernet goes to the first port on the switch, assuming you are using a separate switch. A switch is also often combined with the router, but you can always also use a separate one to create more ports or cascade multiple switches to each other. That provides the Internet to all devices on each switch provided you always hook port 1 on each switch to any port on the preceding switch at each step back to the router.

I do not need or trust wireless (or Apple) for music. But, Airport Express would just use your wireless router, I believe. Get one with the highest wifi bandwidth that is compatible with your other wireless devices. Wireless routers are a bit tricky, though, in terms of speed and reliable coverage. I just use the one that came with Fios. It works great, but I do not use it for music, just some iPads, like the one I am using now. I do use an iPad as a remote control for my music PC, but no music flows through it.

Save your money on the network. It offers no sonic advantage. It is just a data mover. Put your money into the audio, the best DAC and playback equipment instead. That is where you will gain a sonic advantage.


I agree with the above.

I am in IT. That is what I do for a living. I am constantly amazed by the OCD displayed in sites such as Computer Audiophile and sincerely believe many posts are a deterrent to the enjoyment of music using a computer. You'd be surprised how little resources is used by Aduio on a PC.
Having said all of this a few things:

Use Wired Networks. Wifi can be good enough but wired is always better
Cat 5 is good enough but Cat 6 is not expensive so.
Avoid Fiber if you can it brings absolutely nothing in that realm.
Use a good EThernet switch. Netgear makes good switches for the Home and so do DLink, Linksys and some other. You don't need to invest in a Cisco Catalyst for this purpose.
if you are using a NAS make sure you back it up regularly. For the people not in the know "RAID 5" redundancy sounds spectacular. it is not a back-up and if will not save you from data corruption, a common occurrence with NAS. Back up is necessary and there are several ways. Cloud back-up works well if you have a good connection to the Internet... at least 50 Mb/s or prepare yourself to go through days before you're able to back-up and sync a medium size (2~300 CD) library. It cost you to use the CLoud but getting cheaper by the day.
Try TIDAL with ROON on your current network , if may change the way you look at Digital not because of sound issues but for the sheer vastness of music presenced to you.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Just a naive question - if Wifi is good enough for error free transmission of data at 100 Mb/s why do people feel it should it be avoided for audio?
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,007
515
1,740
Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
You can easily go nuts via tangents in computer audiophile threads. The question is do you want to believe any or all of them based on pure, uncontrolled, biased testimonials with no objective proof? Remember that a guy who has invested time, money and effort into upgrades in his network or computer setup is very subconsciously biased about how much that "improves" the sound in his sighted and uncontrolled listening.

Based on a fair bit of background in computers and IT, I am highly skeptical of all that. In computers, "show me the data" are the most important words, because promises are made every day but not delivered on.

You do not need optical Ethernet. It is expensive and it was designed for high RFI/EMI environments, like factories, elevator shafts, etc., or better security or much greater distances than you need at home. Just use copper Cat6a from somebody reputable like Blue Jeans. There is zero objective data indicating glass fiber is any better for audio or any other type of data transmission under normal circumstances in the home or most offices, government agencies, etc. There is also zero objective data indicating any advantage for the outrageously overpriced audiophile cables like AudioQuest, just the usual, unreliable testimonials.

All Ethernet devices should be rated at gigabit speed aka 10/100/1000. There is no need at all for anything special in modems, routers or switches other than that. Again, you will find no hard evidence anywhere to support the notion of "better sound" by using special "audiophile recommended" network gear. You are just moving data via the network, and audio is not high in bandwidth requirements.

The NAS should be just plugged into a switch or switched router along with your computer, not directly to a modem. The NAS can be anywhere in your home via Ethernet. You will seldom need to touch it. No, it should not be remote in an office unless you want to play at typically lower internet speeds and with more network complexity and potential security risks.

The modem is plugged into the external broadband feed and its Ethernet connection is plugged into a router, if that is separate. Often these days, the modem and router are combined into one unit. Then from the router, Ethernet goes to the first port on the switch, assuming you are using a separate switch. A switch is also often combined with the router, but you can always also use a separate one to create more ports or cascade multiple switches to each other. That provides the Internet to all devices on each switch provided you always hook port 1 on each switch to any port on the preceding switch at each step back to the router.

I do not need or trust wireless (or Apple) for music. But, Airport Express would just use your wireless router, I believe. Get one with the highest wifi bandwidth that is compatible with your other wireless devices. Wireless routers are a bit tricky, though, in terms of speed and reliable coverage. I just use the one that came with Fios. It works great, but I do not use it for music, just some iPads, like the one I am using now. I do use an iPad as a remote control for my music PC, but no music flows through it.

Save your money on the network. It offers no sonic advantage. It is just a data mover. Put your money into the audio, the best DAC and playback equipment instead. That is where you will gain a sonic advantage.

+1 He speaks the truth!
I use CAT5e/6 in the studio through a Dell 10 point switch. Lots of studios do this. This is all you need. No fancy cables needed!
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
4,300
775
1,698
Gentlemen, thank you kindly for the responses!

Just so I understand, Fitzcaraldo and Frantz mentioned adding a router and switch to the cable modem/ DSL modem - what is the benefit and rationale for this, vs. just plugging a NAS into the modem?
 

Fitzcaraldo215

New Member
Nov 3, 2014
394
2
0
Gentlemen, thank you kindly for the responses!

Just so I understand, Fitzcaraldo and Frantz mentioned adding a router and switch to the cable modem/ DSL modem - what is the benefit and rationale for this, vs. just plugging a NAS into the modem?

You need a router so that multiple devices can connect to the Internet simultaneously or one at a time. That is all a router does, although it often includes a built-in wireless access point and a switch. The router should be located in the network immediately after the modem and all devices (connected via switches) after the router can then access the Internet. The NAS does not have router or switch functionality. You want the NAS to be accessible by any other devices on your Ethernet network. So, it needs to be connected to a switch along with those other devices.

So, it is modem > router > switch...switch...switch, etc. The NAS, your computer(s) and other devices are connected to the switches, remembering to always use port 1 on each switch as you trace back to the router and modem. That gives all devices in the network access to the Internet.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Just a naive question - if Wifi is good enough for error free transmission of data at 100 Mb/s why do people feel it should it be avoided for audio?

Good question.

WiFi for the most part is shared medium. You have one Access Point. AP to which are connected multiple clients. An example. You would have the AP and your, laptop, the Music Server, your spouse laptop, the TV, SONOS, your iPhone, their iPad .. and many other things all vying for network time, bandwidth and spectrum. For the most part it works because these clients will transmit and receive data in short bursts. The AP goes from one client to another quickly enough to simulate the idea of a permanent connection. On top of that Wifi share the spectrum (the frequency space where Wifi works) with other Wifi things in the neighborhood .. So it (AP) has to constantly listen, choose other frequencies bands to work and transmit/receive data too while making sure that each and every client to which it is "connected" have a decent to good approximation of a real connection ...

OTOH
A switch has a wire dedicated from that switch to the CLient. End of the story. The medium to transmit is the wire and it is not shared. One to one communication. No interference to deal with, no collision. No retransmission, which results in drop-out.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
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You do not need optical Ethernet. It is expensive and it was designed for high RFI/EMI environments, like factories, elevator shafts, etc., or better security or much greater distances than you need at home. Just use copper Cat6a from somebody reputable like Blue Jeans. There is zero objective data indicating glass fiber is any better for audio or any other type of data transmission under normal circumstances in the home or most offices, government agencies, etc. There is also zero objective data indicating any advantage for the outrageously overpriced audiophile cables like AudioQuest, just the usual, unreliable testimonials.

.

I firmly disagree here..optical is cheap and sonically MUCH better than copper. Quieter, darker backgrounds are there to be had with optical...
 

Fitzcaraldo215

New Member
Nov 3, 2014
394
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0
I firmly disagree here..optical is cheap and sonically MUCH better than copper. Quieter, darker backgrounds are there to be had with optical...

Ok, I am not arguing with your right to state your own preference. And, there are other anecdotal testimonials that agree with you. My question was is there any objective data beyond user anecdotes that demonstrates this to be true either via measurement or by bias-controlled listening tests? I have not seen any, but perhaps you have come across some.

I also assume you are talking about optical Ethernet between a NAS and a PC, not the connection between the PC and DAC, normally not Ethernet. That was, I think, the Op's question.

Could you be more specific about your configuration, including Ethernet switches and other network components?
 

BobShermanEsq

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2015
231
1
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Ok, I am not arguing with your right to state your own preference. And, there are other anecdotal testimonials that agree with you. My question was is there any objective data beyond user anecdotes that demonstrates this to be true either via measurement or by bias-controlled listening tests? I have not seen any, but perhaps you have come across some.

I also assume you are talking about optical Ethernet between a NAS and a PC, not the connection between the PC and DAC, normally not Ethernet. That was, I think, the Op's question.

Could you be more specific about your configuration, including Ethernet switches and other network components?
No data to show it but allot of listening by experienced listeners. Fiber isolation does sound better IMO. Well worth giving it a try, and not very costly. A couple of inexpensive converters, GIBICs from Ebay, a pair of cheap Jameo linear supplies and the appropriate fiber cable are all that is needed to get started.

http://www.amazon.com/MC220L-Converter-1000Mbps-supporting-mountable/dp/B003CFATL0?ie=UTF8&keywords=tp%20link%20fiber%20convertor&qid=1464298778&ref_=sr_1_3&sr=8-3


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=SFP+module%2C+Multi-mode&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XSFP+module%2C+.TRS1&_nkw=SFP+module%2C+&_sacat=0
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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FWIW.... I've used MADI ST/SC optical and Coax in the same system for years..... heard no difference!!!
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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FWIW.... I've used MADI ST/SC optical and Coax in the same system for years..... heard no difference!!!

There goes your audiophile creds :D
 

Kingsrule

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Feb 3, 2011
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Not sure what coax vs. optical audio has to do with copper vs. optical ethernet cable......
 

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