telefunken studio decks compared to studer decks

andromedaaudio

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Any body expirience with telefunken decks (studio ) compared to studer for example , pro s cons ??? sound /mechanics ??
 
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microstrip

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Any body expirience with telefunken decks (studio ) compared to studer for example , pro s cons ??? sound /mechanics ??

An audiophile friend owns a Studer A820 and a Telefunken M15. Unfortunately the Studer has stock electronics and the Telefunken has a Doshi preamplifier it is not possible to compare them in a fair way. At some time I have considered the M15 but the very little information exiting about it (mainly in German! - perhaps not a problem for you) and lack of spares made me drift towards the A80. All Studer technical and service manuals are freely available , parts for the A80 are cheap and easily available Besides the Studer list and its archives are a great source of information in electronic format.
 

andromedaaudio

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I have already 2 studers ( A 80 , B 62 ) so i want to try something else , there is a guy in Germany who restores them . http://www.hilpert-audio.de/audio/index_e.php?site=ueberuns&inhalt=ueberuns/e_ueberuns_titel.htm
An A 820 is a bit to spendy which is off course also a very nice machine .
So maybe the stock M 15 didnt sound to good because he has the doshi connected .
I wanna keep the machine stock i think , " Original sixties seventies "sound , same as old leica glass
 

tony ky ma

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I used a Telefunken M15A as the transport connected to the repro amp of Studer B62 ( same amp of A80), also with a selector switch back to the stock of M15A for compare, result the hybrid sound sound better but the mechanic look more better than B62
tony ma
 

emt930

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My Tele M15A is from Hilpert. It come with Studer butterfly heads (both rec and repro). Very good sound but never have chance to compare side by side with Studer machine. 12810028_959984760717475_1822977348_o.jpg
 

andromedaaudio

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If all goes well i ll be having a pristine M 15 a myself next week , i am the second buyer in line , but the first seems to have some problems , fingers crossed .:D
Its in very good condition from the start which is a must , otherwise i got my eyes on a M 21 which is in awesome state , its also portable for doing your own recordings.
The M 15 a has a trolley as well which is cool
 
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andromedaaudio

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I might be getting a pristine M 21 from " baujahr" 1995 supposedly one of the last leaving the factory , recapped , looks really as new and virtually new heads.
I like the tape path a lot on the M 21 , 20 and the way the tape is pressed onto the heads , simple but it looks quite effective , it also has speedregulation when speeding backwards /forwards
 

andromedaaudio

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Well it should have been the M 21 but , the M 15 A became relevant again ( you know how it is on internet ) , some buyers dont show up , or some salespeople change appointments ;)
But in the end it became the M 15 A including trolley and some sort of faderstart/mix ? which they use while recording not in use at the moment , this is a beauty both constructionwise and operation, nicer then the A 80 IMO , no sound yet , something to do with my cables and going from xlr (recording bizz ) to cinch .
Bought it from a recording engineer , well maintained , incl some mastertapes and empty tapes , very interesting what he had to tell , the studer A 80 s werent that popular in holland because of relayability issues .
Late serial no made in the late eighties somewhere no 5295 .


M 15 1 by andromeda61, on Flickr
 
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andromedaaudio

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Something wrong with the connections here , it only makes sound with Xlr ground hanging lose 2 being signal and 1 connected to cinch ground ??
The B 62 and A 80 had no problem producing sound when a xlr - cinch connector was used with the single ended only Cat pre , the AEG Telefunken seems to be different ??:(
 
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andromedaaudio

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Still not working properly soundwise , need to have it looked at , maybe somebody has an idea here , if i connect 1 and 3 (2 is signal ) to cinch ground then there is a problem .
The person i bought it from , has XLR pre in and that worked fine

M 15 a by andromeda61, on Flickr
 

andromedaaudio

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The problem was a faulty cinch connector , got it working properly now ,pin 2 orange " hot " and pin 1 and 3 connected cinch ground , it has plenty of gain now and sounds great ,i ll make some sound update later
Besides that this is an awesome sounding tapemachine and a joy to use , tapehandling is nicer then the studers it has ferrite heads which dont wear ,
The big flywheel ( next to the cable connectors ) has a sensor built inside which couples to the motor drive so its constant guarding/adjusting its own speed.
Its more of a KISS machine , keep it simple stupid :)
 
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Schallfeldwebel

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One of the differences I found to be rather stunning between Studer and Telefunken was when I measured the wow and flutter from a Studer A807 and Telefunken M15, everytime a splice passed the capstan and idler roller, the W&F from the A807 went from 0.03% up to 0,09%. The Telefunken M15 kept constantly on a value of 0.03%, edit splice or not, it did not give a damn.

Soundwise the Studer 800 series sound more open and phase linear. The M15 sounds rather dark and the stereo image isn't very open. Maybe the Studer A80 sounds a bit harsh, the Telefunken sounds warm. The A 807, 810, 812 and 820 sound more open.

Pure from mechanics the Telefunken has a problem. The tape guide for fast spooling in the headblock gets dirty between the metal buss and the ceramic sides, dirt gets caught between the buss ends and the two ceramic side plates, and when the oxide gets hard, it can cut in the tape on the outer sides. The same with the tape guides close to the spools. Also there it is the same problem, oxide gets caught between the ceramic parts and the metal. With running old tapes this has to be cleaned out several times a day, and this can only be done properly by unscrewing the the whole thing and clean the metal buss on top and bottom.

The Telefunken M21 has a complete free tape path while winding fast forward and backward, like the A80. I like that. I think a Telefunken M21 sounds better than a M15(A), the heads have a-symmetric butterfly heads, and go far lower in the bass region than most other decks.
 

andromedaaudio

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One simple thing that i find annoying of the studer for example :
A pancake reel is typically 277 mm wide(full ) , it extends over the base plate on the studer which is 265 mm so everytime one has to pile the tape away between the pancake and the casing .
On the telefunken the plate is much wider 300 mm , so when the reel is full the tape lays nicely on the plate on the same height as the pancake ready to do what ever .
I have a different expirience so far : there is far more tape residu left behind on the studer then on the telefunken
 
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microstrip

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One of the differences I found to be rather stunning between Studer and Telefunken was when I measured the wow and flutter from a Studer A807 and Telefunken M15, everytime a splice passed the capstan and idler roller, the W&F from the A807 went from 0.03% up to 0,09%. The Telefunken M15 kept constantly on a value of 0.03%, edit splice or not, it did not give a damn.
(...)

Perhaps the Telefunken M15 had a stepped pinch roller and the Studer A807 had a wide flat one - it can cause such behavior at edits.
 

Audiocrack

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I am a greenhorn with respect to high quality tape deck playing. However, I found an AEG (Telefunken made) Magnetophon 15 A tape deck in splendid condition. Does any of the 'tape experts' know if this AEG/Telefunken machine can compete with the top Studer tape decks and whether it is worth acquiring?
 

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