New Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star Cartridge

This thread will go nowhere due to the fact that 99.99999% of audiophiles have been told since the late 70's that there is no better method of designing and manufacturing a cartridge than the moving-coil. That's what they've been fed. That's the way they think. Anything that differs from that dogma is rejected out of hand. No need to investigate. End of the story.

Some have discovered otherwise but their testimony is poorly regarded due to lack of exposure to true high quality non-moving coil cartridges. A blind man can acknowledge the presence of sunlight because even though he can't see it, he can sense it. The subtle quality of moonlight eludes him however.

Perhaps you could enlighten folk and provide some information about these cartridges and MM designs in general instead of ranting against the world and MC cartridge users?

What attributes would you say distinguish MM designs from MC that make them a better, or comparable, choice?

Are there any data on the number of people using MC vs. MM? I imagine there must be sales data but it might be hard to track down...

I have no recent experience and virtually no experience with very expensive cartridges (Koetsu, back in the day, sounded nice to me but tracked poorly, and a couple of others but back then about $300 was my limit and $1000 carts were out of reach).

DonH50 said:

Perhaps you could enlighten folk and provide some information about these cartridges and MM designs in general instead of ranting against the world and MC cartridge users?

What attributes would you say distinguish MM designs from MC that make them a better, or comparable, choice?

Are there any data on the number of people using MC vs. MM? I imagine there must be sales data but it might be hard to track down...

I have no recent experience and virtually no experience with very expensive cartridges (Koetsu, back in the day, sounded nice to me but tracked poorly, and a couple of others but back then about $300 was my limit and $1000 carts were out of reach).

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There's plenty of information on the net. Enlighten yourself.

theophile said:

There's plenty of information on the net. Enlighten yourself.

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That's a great way to get a conversation going.

I'm sorry Don H had the gall to try to do so.

Don, appears Mr. Theophile has no interest in dealing / conversing with mere mortals.

theophile said:

This thread will go nowhere due to the fact that 99.99999% of audiophiles have been told since the late 70's that there is no better method of designing and manufacturing a cartridge than the moving-coil. That's what they've been fed. That's the way they think. Anything that differs from that dogma is rejected out of hand. No need to investigate. End of the story.

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Actually, it could go a long way if there are no more caustic, insulting, inappropriate, self serving comments such as the one above.

thedudeabides said:

Actually, it could go a long way if there are no more caustic, insulting, inappropriate, self serving comments such as the one above.

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Indeed. My experience with MM is limited but positive, having owned Nagaoka's MP50s, Shure V15mr5, and a few older Ortofons. The Ortofon 2M Black is popular here, as are Soundsmith/Peter's rebuilds (esp w/sapphire cantilever option). I'm assuming Peter's carts are just as worthy.

I was sincere, maybe it did not come across that way (these conversations are always easier in person). I have not set up my TT but "back in the day" used MM the vast majority of the time. Most of the MC cartridges I tried had various issues that I felt detracted from their performance. Primarily noise, which was partly a preamp/transformer problem, but a lot of the ones I tried did not track well in the various arms I tried (SME, Magnepan, Grace, couple of linear trackers -- this was way back in the 80's/90's). The Denon 103 (?) was the only one I actually owned myself though had a number of others go through my system (including an early Koetsu that I was flat-out afraid of -- I could not afford it if I broke it!) Vinyl quality had really gotten poor IME/IMO until MFSL and Sheffield (among others) gave it a kick in the pants. I remember Soundsmith -- IIRC Peter came from IBM'S TJ Watson research center, a pretty prestigious place (I have worked with IBM folk there but on circuit/device technology, not audio), and the strain gauge cartridge was a very neat idea. I do not remember a lot about the sound; I had started a family, my system was not heavily used by the time it finally hit the market (2000'ish?), and I had no funds for high-end audio.

I could search, but I come to WBF for answers and opinions from folk I know a bit better, but whatever. I have my own opinions, based on personal knowledge and experience, but am curious about what others think and why MC took over (if that is true, I honestly do not know the volume of MC vs. MM sales). There were some MC's I really liked, but by and large for me they never seemed to win out overall over a good MM design, usually for reasons apart from the actual MC vs. MM architecture.

I think for a lot of people it's all about detail retrieval. The overall musicality may take a back seat as they view detail as king. I personally find there is an edge to MC cartridges that I'm not willing to live with for any extended period of time. I believe that despite the awesome detail it also masks some of the middle frequencies that IMO should sound more natural. I must point out that $2,000 is the most I could ever afford to spend on a cartridge, so please keep that in mind regarding my comment.

Johnny Vinyl said:

I think for a lot of people it's all about detail retrieval. The overall musicality may take a back seat as they view detail as king. I personally find there is an edge to MC cartridges that I'm not willing to live with for any extended period of time. I believe that despite the awesome detail it also masks some of the middle frequencies that IMO should sound more natural. I must point out that $2,000 is the most I could ever afford to spend on a cartridge, so please keep that in mind regarding my comment.

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Hi Johnny ... many moons ago, I considered many MC's to sound to tilted on top, possibly providing the illusion of greater detail. Today's MC, at least the ones I get to hear about town, seem consistently flatter. Conversely, when I owned the Shure V15v4, although it measured flat, I simply couldn't get into its brand of musical delivery; the highs always seemed muted, no matter what set-up. The V15v5 was a completely different story, one I truly enjoyed, still wish I had a working model for comparison. That said, since the V15, I've migrated to about a half dozen different MC alternatives, and only 1 MM (really a moving iron).

DonH50, in my books, you've always come across as sincere, knowledgeable, and very helpful.

Thanks TBone. I'm afraid theophile took my post wrong. I was asking, not challenging. Oh well.

One thing I have always noticed, which may or may not be true today, is that MC cartridges were much more picky about loading and took a lot more work to dial in both loading and VTA, anti-skate, and tracking force. MM carts for me were (are?) much more forgiving of loading and generally (not always) less persnickety about physical set-up parameters.

Then there is the whole issue of low vs. high output MCs...

The best MCs I heard were magical, but so were the best MMs, and way less trouble. I did really love that Denon, but when it came time to replace it, I went back to a MM (a Grace F9E for those from the stone age).

DonH50 said:

One thing I have always noticed, which may or may not be true today, is that MC cartridges were much more picky about loading and took a lot more work to dial in both loading and VTA, anti-skate, and tracking force. MM carts for me were (are?) much more forgiving of loading and generally (not always) less persnickety about physical set-up parameters.

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In relation to this being a SS focused post ... two links:
http://www.sound-smith.com/how-adjust-your-azimuth.html
http://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information.html

I mention these two parameters because in my travels, they are very much related, irrespective of MM/MC architecture. In other words, the more aggressive the stylus shape, the more important setup becomes.

Peter also is one of the few who suggest setting SRA statically isn't going to prove optimal ...

"When the record is in motion the frictional forces on the diamond causes the cantilever to swing upwards. How much?? That varies as a function of the vertical compliance, which can vary widely from model to model and even within one model type based on age and other factors."

Lots of great info/advice on Peter's sight, the only method I don't practice is his method of setting anti-skate. That said, we both agree that minimum ant-skate is preferable as to have no visible offset applied to the cantilever.

As for MC loading, preferences vary, even with the same cart ... as an example; while most run Benz carts between 100 to 1k, mine set at 47k, running it "wide-open" as some may claim. Perhaps of topic, but, the first time I tried the wide-open approach, I was expecting some potential high-freq lift. My first rip was an original Traveling WIlbury's V1 LP, and once measured; I was shocked to see a very sharp ~8khz spike contained within -every- song, although the rest of the waveform seemed perfectly flat/fine. Since I had also modified my pre-amp, I was left pondering what perhaps I'd done to cause such a consistent issue. Thankfully, before I dug deeper, I found a similarly mastered CD for comparison, the same 8khz spike also apparent in the mix.

No Grados?

The thread is about Soundsmith, after all... But I had a number of Grados through the years. Loved their sound, hated their tracking, from the cheap models to the Signature. I could never seem to find a setting that gave both great sound and the ability to track even the mildest warp. On a good disc they were great. I remember speaking with him at some show and he said their compliance was both a pro and a con. Another gentleman there in their booth (I do not know whom) agreed and said my tonearm was probably not a good match (although I had several, at that time I had moved from a Grace to a Magnepan Unipivot and neither seemed to work well with my Grado). IIRC a lighter tonearm was favored, though my Unipivot was (I thought) fairly light.

I think my old Grace is still on my tonearm, and pretty sure I have a midrange Grado and couple of others in a box someplace.

IME! - Don

... still use an old beat up pair of Grado headphones, mostly when ripping. IME , it shares similar tonality with many of their carts.