Sonore's microrendu is out - the first audiophile microcomputer?

YashN · May 2, 2016

Jesus at Sonore just released the microrendu, a computer whose internals, including motherboard, power supply network and software stack were purpose-built for audiophile applications.

He worked with John Swenson and Andrew from Small Green Computers.

Now, since I was thinking of the best NAA to use in the ideal HQ Player client-server configuration, this device is a great one to use as NAA.

However, it turns out it can actually take the place of the computer in a NAS + Computer as well.

Chris has the first part of his review over at CA.

amirm · May 2, 2016

Thanks. Crossing fingers that there are some measurements to go with the box.

As to taking the place of the computer, it depends on what you use the computer for. For me, it has to run Dirac which this does not. It also doesn't run Roon so that rules it out too.

YashN · May 2, 2016

amirm said:
As to taking the place of the computer, it depends on what you use the computer for.

I only mentioned the computer with NAS configuration because if you already had this running, then the microrendu will replace the computer in its simplest form.

Hence, you have an audiophile, purpose-built computer running in between the NAS and the DAC rather than a general purpose machine with its motherboard, internal power networks, and various components all producing a lot of noise affecting your power lines as well as your DAC output if the latter is not exceptionally well-isolated (most of them).

amirm said:
It also doesn't run Roon so that rules it out too.

Now, if you're bent on Roon, you can use the microrendu as a rendering hub too, in conjunction with your existing server computer as it does support RoonReady:

I don't know much more about Roon and its services apart from not being too keen on the high price, but they're bent on adding a lot of features and getting more manufacturers on board with their technology, especially multi-room and multi-channel (even high rate DSD), and also now have great integration with HQ Player.

As for Dirac and other DSP for room correction, I am no fan of those either and prefer organic and acoustic room treatment instead.

amirm · May 2, 2016

YashN said:
Hence, you have an audiophile, purpose-built computer running in between the NAS and the DAC rather than a general purpose machine with its motherboard, internal power networks, and various components all producing a lot of noise affecting your power lines as well as your DAC output if the latter is not exceptionally well-isolated (most of them).

You don't have any of this yet. These are claimed. They need to demonstrate that what they have done is actually correct and has merit. I am not saying it doesn't. But mere words and theory doesn't get us there.

Now, if you're bent on Roon, you can use the microrendu as a rendering hub too, in conjunction with your existing server computer as it does support RoonReady:

I know but then it doesn't replace the computer which was my point.

As for Dirac and other DSP for room correction, I am no fan of those either and prefer organic and acoustic room treatment instead.

I understand but again, I want to be clear about the value of a computer being beyond what this box does. With a standard OS and lots of horsepower, you can do more. I for example let my server do the resampling between DSD to my PCM DAC.

YashN · May 2, 2016

amirm said:
You don't have any of this yet.

Yes, the motherboard and all the power network and all the components were built for just a single purpose: audiophile use.

As far as I know, no one has done this before.

All we have been able to do until then in the NAA is to re-purpose a general purpose NUC or other SBC, but they were not purpose-built for audiophile uses.

amirm said:
These are claimed. They need to demonstrate that what they have done is actually correct and has merit. I am not saying it doesn't. But mere words and theory doesn't get us there.

Your mere words won't change anything either.

amirm said:
I know but then it doesn't replace the computer which was my point.

Then you would be missing the point of having a purpose-built computer in between the NAS and the DAC, because if the DAC is directly connected to a general purpose computer (and as mentioned most DACs do not have full isolation yet), there's a lot of noise affecting the DAC operation (not to mention how the computer's switching mode power supply re-injects a lot of noise into the mains and the air).

amirm said:
I understand but again, I want to be clear about the value of a computer being beyond what this box does. With a standard OS and lots of horsepower, you can do more. I for example let my server do the resampling between DSD to my PCM DAC.

Yes you can do more with a server computer and especially if you use HQ Player in its ideal client-server mode, which is HQ Player on the server computer and then use the networkaudiodaemon on an NAA device attached through Ethernet, thus isolating further and making a much smaller and less complex circuit be near the DAC.

So this was already being done with small devices like the Beaglebone Black and other NUCs or SBCs with reports of success and great sound (I've done it with another Macbook Pro myself).

But even then, the SBC is still a general-purpose computing circuit, so that's why some of us have been waiting for a much simpler device to come about.

Hence, one could use a microrendu in place of the usual SBC as the former is purpose built for audiophile uses, nothing extraneous is there.

As for DSD-to-PCM, there is not much good in doing that: DSD should ideally be interpreted also with as simple a circuit as could be, a chip-less with discrete gentle filtering being one of the more extreme implementations there could be. Or a chip which can do native DSD decoding.

What PCM DAC are you using and how does it treat the PCM internally?

amirm · May 2, 2016

YashN said:
Yes, the motherboard and all the power network and all the components were built for just a single purpose: audiophile use.

That is what is said. I don't see the motherboard. Can't examine it. Nor is there a definition of "audiophile use." Saying this and that is done for power supply is a statement. A measurement should be provided to show the efficacy of it. I tested a linear power supply for example with Regen that was made for it but didn't improve its performance.

When I spoke to John about the Regen, his idea of what is good for audiophile performance and mine vary.

Again, this may be a good box. There just needs to be some data that validates what they are saying technically. Have them measure one of their "CAP" systems and compare it to this one.

Steve Bruzonsky · May 2, 2016

YashN said:
Jesus at Sonore just released the microrendu, a computer whose internals, including motherboard, power supply network and software stack were purpose-built for audiophile applications.

He worked with John Swenson and Andrew from Small Green Computers.

Now, since I was thinking of the best NAA to use in the ideal HQ Player client-server configuration, this device is a great one to use as NAA.

However, it turns out it can actually take the place of the computer in a NAS + Computer as well.

Chris has the first part of his review over at CA.

You folks beat me on this one:

____________________________________

From a few weeks ago:

EGADS! ROON has just got WAY better in my audio/home theater system!!!@@@

My ROON setup, until tonight, was as follows:

CAPSv4 (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 4), USB out. With Roonserver loaded, designated as my primary music computer for ROON, because ROON would only use the USB out from the primary music server.

iPad Pro with the iPad Pro app for ROON, used as a controller only.

Also a Toshiba laptop, with the full RoonInstaller loaded, but used only as a controller as well.
______________

Tonight, as I started listening to music with ROON, an auto ROON software install came up and loaded. I checked and found out the ROON version is now 1.2. And version 1.2 also has RoonBridge software, which now allows the full RoonInstaller to be installed on a computer remote, that is, from the media server that is outputting the USB music!

Now my ROON setup, as of late last night (Tuesday night) (EXCITING!) is:

CAPSv4 (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 4), USB out. With Roonserver and RoonBridge loaded, designated as a remote computer for ROON.

CAPSv3 Zuma (Computer Audiophile forum server, version 3) (modded a bit). I use this media server only for multi-channel out via HDMI using JRiver Media Center software (as ROON does not at this time do multi-channel audio). But NOW I have loaded the main RoonInstaller, the full ROON program, and I have this computer designated as primary for ROON. ROON’s database is now on this computer. This computer does all the filing, searching, internet connections, audio processing, etc now for ROON and my 2 channel audio – then the audio file goes through my wi-fi network to the CAPSv4 and out its USB. HA!
iPad Pro with the iPad Pro app for ROON, used as a controller only. Also a Toshiba laptop, with the full RoonInstaller loaded, but used only as a controller as well.
____________________________

ROON as configured prior to tonight, in my system, sounded better than JRiver Media Center 21, for stereo! By moving all the PC “work” and “processing” over to the CAPSv3, the sonic improvement is astounding and amazing!!@@@ ROON is a terrific audio playing program for audiophiles and music luvers! Its metadata capabilities alone are reason to use ROON. But its audio quality particularly when you use a separate computer for the ROON processing, etc (as I use the CAPSv3), and use a media server pretty much only to pass on the audio signal (as I use the CAPSv4), is second to none! I am blown away! I wonder how long I will stay up listening to music tonite? Its already 2 AM!

__________________________

NOW:

Sonore and also Small Green Computer just started sales of their revolutionary new product, the Sonore MicroRendu - A Revolution in Music Server Price & Quality!

Read the review at:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...part-1/Product for sale at Sonore’s website, also at Small Green Computer for a “whole” $640! http://microjukebox.com/products/mic...nt=18223114884

MICRORENDU

• $ 64000
•
________________________________________
Power supply
Sold Out
________________________________________
Connect your USB DAC to your network.
The microRendu allows you to play music from many different network music sources on your USB attached DAC.
POWER SUPPLY OPTIONS
iFi iPower Supply - 100-240VAC, 50/60Hz, ~1uV average audio band noise floor, for USA/UK/EU/AUS electrical outlets, with Active Noise Cancellation+

SPECIFICATIONS:
AUDIO
• Supported File Formats: FLAC, ALAC, WAV, AIFF, MP3, AAC, OGG, WMA, WMA-L, DSF, DFF
• Native Sampling Rates: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz, 352.8kHz and 384kHz
• DSD formats: DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256
• Bit Depths: 16, 24
• SPDIF output supports: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, and 192kHz both in 16 bit and 24 bit
CONNECTIVITY
• Network: Gigabit Ethernet RJ45
• USB: 2 USB ports
• SPDIF: 1 optical SPDIF digital output
• Power: 5VDC input
• Network Protocols: DLNA, , Squeezebox®, Roon RAAT
USER INTERFACE
• Android: App Available Online at Google Play Store - OrangeSqueeze
• iOS: App Available Online at Apple App Store - iPeng
• Roon iOS or Android App
DIMENSIONS:
• 3.5"x2.2"x.7"
• 1 lbs
POWER CONSUMPTION:
• 8 Watts
OPERATING ENVIRONMENT:
• 0° C to 40° C
___________________

I just ordered one! For now they are sold out.

I will be using it in my system in place of my CAPSv4 Pipeline, which I will sell. This component will be my RoonBridge, in lieu of the CAPSv4 Pipeline I am using right now for this purpose.My CAPSv3 Zuma will continue to be used for multi-channel audio over HDMI with JRiver Media Center; and also my CAPSv3 Zuma will continue to run the main RoonServer program to interface with internet music info and data and to do the processing/conversion of audio files and then send them via Ethernet to the MicroRendu which will output clean and isolated audio over USB to the rest of my system! I was hopin’ this would come about. Never expected so quick. For now, I will be using the MicroRendu with the external LPS power supply that came with my CAPSv4. Sonore is coming out with a premium LPS power supply particularly for the MicroRendu, which I plan to get once available, which should even give me somewhat improved sonics over my current LPS!

Of course the MicroRendu does not do all we need for a media server. But its the isolated Ethernet hub which outputs USB audio! This is the key. And for us Roon luvers, its RoonReady!!! Its a steal as far as I am concerned.
I have bought both of my CAPSv3 and CAPSv4 media servers from Andrew Gillis, Small Green Computer, who wrote the software for the MicroRendu. We modded and custom built my CAPSv3 Zuma and talked and corresponded a lot. Andrew is as "anal" and thorough as Amir (which says a lot). Andrew, Sonore and John Swenson wanted to use ROON, etc and outperform the CAPS media servers by providing an Ethernet connected outlet to accept the audio at whatever form (FLAC, WAV, DSD, etc), sample and bit rate, and output via USB. In the past I have found that Andrew Gillis has gave solid advice on how stuff would sound, e.g., not connecting the display on my CAPSv3 Zuma because the display on added measurable noise which theoretically negatively can impact sonic quality (a friend with a high power home theater/audio PC disconnected the display and could hear the sonic improvement - and don't no one go placebo on me!).

adyc · May 2, 2016

Please understand MicroRendu will never replace your computer. It allows you to move computer away from your hifi system. If you agree that general purpose computer is noisy and should be as far way as possible from your hifi rigs, this device is for you.

You can do all the heavy and nosiy oversampling in your computer in other room. Then the data is sent to microRendu through Ethernet and clean it up and sent to your USB DAC.

LarsS · May 3, 2016

adyc said:
Please understand MicroRendu will never replace your computer. It allows you to move computer away from your hifi system. If you agree that general purpose computer is noisy and should be as far way as possible from your hifi rigs, this device is for you.

You can do all the heavy and nosiy oversampling in your computer in other room. Then the data is sent to microRendu through Ethernet and clean it up and sent to your USB DAC.

Then again the microRendu is a computer. As Amir wrote, where's the data showing this computer is better at audio then others.

adyc · May 3, 2016

LarsS said:
Then again the microRendu is a computer. As Amir wrote, where's the data showing this computer is better at audio then others.

If you want data, don't you think it is the best to ask them directly? If they can't provide, feel free not to buy this product. Given that the motherboard is customized, no fan and off the shelf nosiy switching power supply, it is very hard to imagine that it is noiser than a general purpose computer crunching intensive calculations. How much better I am not sure.

LarsS · May 3, 2016

adyc said:
If you want data, don't you think it is the best to ask them directly? If they can't provide, feel free not to buy this product. Given that the motherboard is customized, no fan and off the shelf nosiy switching power supply, it is very hard to imagine that it is noiser than a general purpose computer crunching intensive calculations. How much better I am not sure.

They can't, see CA's article. Prefer facts instead of imagining ... ;-)

adyc · May 3, 2016

LarsS said:
They can't, see CA's article. Prefer facts instead of imagining ... ;-)

Sorry. I can't see Chris said that Sonore could not provide data in the article. If you are interested, talk to Sonore directly. Agree that there are a lot of snake oil products. But don't dismiss it easily unless the manufacturer behaves like snake oil salesman.

FrantzM · May 3, 2016

LarsS said:
Then again the microRendu is a computer. As Amir wrote, where's the data showing this computer is better at audio then others.

I can understand the enthusiasm but what is defined as "audiophile" in the context of a computer? Perhaps it uses the best caps on the market or... Silver-wired inductors? Where is the beef ..err ... data? since the fundamental purpose of this thing is exactly to crunch data?

Fitzcaraldo215 · May 3, 2016

FrantzM said:
I can understand the enthusiasm but what is defined as "audiophile" in the context of a computer? Perhaps it uses the best caps on the market or... Silver-wired inductors? Where is the beef ..err ... data? since the fundamental purpose of this thing is exactly to crunch data?

With computers, as elsewhere in audio, "audiophile" means data, as in measured performance, is the enemy. Yup, data and audiophile computers just do not mix, ironically, since all computers process data. We are just supposed to listen and judge with our ears and biases, following myth and folklore about LPS's, add on tweaks, etc. You want data about computer audio performance? What, are you nuts? You want to take all the fun out of being a computer audiophile. How can we ever get to better sound with actual data?

MadFloyd · May 3, 2016

$64k for a computer?

YashN · May 3, 2016

amirm said:
That is what is said. I don't see the motherboard. Can't examine it. Nor is there a definition of "audiophile use." Saying this and that is done for power supply is a statement.

Really, what is so difficult to understand about this team building a microcomputer board specifically for one purpose: getting as high an SQ as possible by optimising the motherboard, the component selection, the power network, the interfaces and the software stack?

amirm said:
A measurement should be provided to show the efficacy of it.

Then I'm sure you'll get one and try to do your own measurements. Do you even know what to measure precisely and how?

amirm said:
I tested a linear power supply for example with Regen that was made for it but didn't improve its performance.

I'll trust my ears over yours any day, especially as you heard no difference, just like Waldrep heard no difference in his own studio (ha!) while two of his guest did hear differences.

amirm said:
When I spoke to John about the Regen, his idea of what is good for audiophile performance and mine vary.

Maybe, but then as an audiophile and an engineer myself, I'll trust Swenson more than you any day too

He's one of the few that knows how a computer audiophile system works (and its foibles) end-to-end.

There's a reason he's much sought after by audio manufacturers who want to innovate in the computer audiophile space, and it's not like he absolutely needs that extra money either since he already has another daytime job (last I checked).

amirm said:
There just needs to be some data that validates what they are saying technically. Have them measure one of their "CAP" systems and compare it to this one.

What do you mean by "their "CAP" systems"?

You haven't replied about which PCM DAC you are using and how it treats PCM internally...

YashN · May 3, 2016

FrantzM said:
since the fundamental purpose of this thing is exactly to crunch data?

Wrong. The fundamental purpose is to be able to crunch data while maximising signal-to-noise ratio in your system.

If you just want to crunch data without paying particular attention to SQ, then use any computer or any SBC depending on the configuration.

YashN · May 3, 2016

Steve Bruzonsky said:
You folks beat me on this one:

Read the review at:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...part-1/Product for sale at Sonore’s website, also at Small Green Computer for a “whole” $640! http://microjukebox.com/products/mic...nt=18223114884

MICRORENDU

• $ 64000

$640 is the correct price, not "$64000"

YashN · May 3, 2016

adyc said:
Please understand MicroRendu will never replace your computer.

It's not meant to in all circumstances. However, as an intermediate to a NAS and then connecting to your DAC, it could.

You can do all the heavy and nosiy oversampling in your computer in other room. Then the data is sent to microRendu through Ethernet and clean it up and sent to your USB DAC.

That would be my preferred use case but as the use case with a NAS shows, it isn't the only way to use the device.

Elberoth · May 3, 2016

The microRednu is just an end point. You still have to use a separate computer. You can try to run the Roon on a NAS, if it is powerful enough (few are; we are talking about Enterprise class NAS drives). Otherwise, running Roon on a NAS is not recommended.

To me, the whole point of microRednu is using it as an end point (NAA) for HQ Player. For that, you need a very powerful computer.

It is an add on, rather than a replacement for a computer.

Sonore's microrendu is out - the first audiophile microcomputer?

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