How Do You Shop For Cables?

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

When I select components for a home entertainment system I like to get gear that sounds as neutral as possible. I think the job of a well made cable is to let the signal pass through without altering it. Does anyone know how to identify a neutral sounding cable BEFORE you listen to it? The materials, the connectors, the measurements? I can generally tell how neutral a speaker will be before listening to it by looking at a chart of frequency response and off axis dispersion, sometimes the type of drivers or cabinet it uses but for cables I am not sure. In my experience cables have made the biggest bang for the buck difference in my system. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

treitz3 · May 1, 2016

Hello witchdoctor. The only way to shop for cables for me is to audition them in a system, bring them home and listen to them in my own system. I don't think there is a way to determine whether or not a cable is neutral without having a reference system to be able to determine whether it is or not. I will also add what our own Industry Expert chimed in on regarding this earlier on this year;

DaveC said:
"Neutral" is determined by comparison and experience, it can only be relative as you can't just take away a part of a system and have it still work, we can't listen to an electrical signal without a system to convert the signal to sound.

To see his full post, click here >>> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...SAVE-You-Money&p=391972&viewfull=1#post391972

Tom

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

treitz3 said:
Hello witchdoctor. The only way to shop for cables for me is to audition them in a system, bring them home and listen to them in my own system. I don't think there is a way to determine whether or not a cable is neutral without having a reference system to be able to determine whether it is or not. I will also add what our own Industry Expert chimed in on regarding this earlier on this year;

To see his full post, click here >>> http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...SAVE-You-Money&p=391972&viewfull=1#post391972

Tom

Thanks, that's pretty much what I have been doing. Boards like this at least let you compare notes and get ideas, thanks,

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

witchdoctor said:
Thanks, that's pretty much what I have been doing. Boards like this at least let you compare notes and get ideas, thanks,

That's a good link you posted, when you don't have a neutral sounding cable it's hard to tell. When you have one and then substitute a cable that introduces a coloration you notice it right away. I once auditioned an interconnect that had gotten some good reviews. I immediately noticed sibilance that wasn't there before. Unless I had a benchmark to compare with the sibilance wouldn't have seemed so pronounced.

Johnny Vinyl · May 1, 2016

witchdoctor said:
That's a good link you posted, when you don't have a neutral sounding cable it's hard to tell. When you have one and then substitute a cable that introduces a coloration you notice it right away. I once auditioned an interconnect that had gotten some good reviews. I immediately noticed sibilance that wasn't there before. Unless I had a benchmark to compare with the sibilance wouldn't have seemed so pronounced.

Not doubting you, but sibilance should be fairly evident regardless of the cable used. Some cables could accentuate sibilance and is this what you meant to say?

Folsom · May 1, 2016

You could say a low capacitance cable would be good but... I've had cables that have that claim to fame and they ended up not being so great.

I'm sure cables I prefer are still low capacitance, but it wasn't a helpful determining specification.

For me swapping cables around really is the best way to notice the difference and figure out which ones sound colored etc...

BTW Dave's cables sound the best by far from what I've got experience with. But really the description is I don't hear them.

DaveC · May 1, 2016

It's a good topic but my opinions are just going to sound self serving.

I think everyone has to hear for themselves and make their own conclusions, so I think having a demo program or trial period is very helpful and I encourage people to take advantage of that and audition several cables from different manufacturers at the same time. A lot of people are hesitant to take advantage of demo policies but I want to encourage people to not be shy, I appreciate people that are willing to demo whether they buy or not and I carry a large inventory of cables just to send on demos. Home demo is the only way to be sure a component is going to work for you and comparisons are the only way to experience the difference between your options. Manufacturers realize that personal preference, synergy, etc make absolutes wrt what is best meaningless and most of us genuinely want to help our customers so really... do take advantage of demo offers.

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
Not doubting you, but sibilance should be fairly evident regardless of the cable used. Some cables could accentuate sibilance and is this what you meant to say?

Let me give you another example. For years I used a digital cable that I felt was as transparent and neutral as possible. When a vendor I respect asked me to do a shootout with one of his digital cables I accepted partly because I was curious and partly because I was being polite. I didn't expect much because his cable cost roughly 80% less than the one I was using. Once I swapped cables the music sounded fuller. The new cable revealed details in the music I wasn't hearing before. If I had not switched cables I would have been oblivious to the missing amount of details. When I switched back to the old cable I noticed the missing details. The missing details were not evident before changing cables because my system did not sound bad. Only upon hearing the difference with new cable did I realize what I had been missing.

Does that make sense?

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

Folsom said:
You could say a low capacitance cable would be good but... I've had cables that have that claim to fame and they ended up not being so great.

I'm sure cables I prefer are still low capacitance, but it wasn't a helpful determining specification.

For me swapping cables around really is the best way to notice the difference and figure out which ones sound colored etc...

BTW Dave's cables sound the best by far from what I've got experience with. But really the description is I don't hear them.

Your last sentence is exactly what the reviewer said at avrev.com. He was asking how can he describe something you can't hear.

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

DaveC said:
It's a good topic but my opinions are just going to sound self serving.

I think everyone has to hear for themselves and make their own conclusions, so I think having a demo program or trial period is very helpful and I encourage people to take advantage of that and audition several cables from different manufacturers at the same time. A lot of people are hesitant to take advantage of demo policies but I want to encourage people to not be shy, I appreciate people that are willing to demo whether they buy or not and I carry a large inventory of cables just to send on demos. Home demo is the only way to be sure a component is going to work for you and comparisons are the only way to experience the difference between your options. Manufacturers realize that personal preference, synergy, etc make absolutes wrt what is best meaningless and most of us genuinely want to help our customers so really... do take advantage of demo offers.

That is pretty much the process I have been using. I was just fishing for a screening process before auditioning but I guess forums like this are helpful for that purpose.

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

Folsom said:
You could say a low capacitance cable would be good but... I've had cables that have that claim to fame and they ended up not being so great.

I'm sure cables I prefer are still low capacitance, but it wasn't a helpful determining specification.

For me swapping cables around really is the best way to notice the difference and figure out which ones sound colored etc...

BTW Dave's cables sound the best by far from what I've got experience with. But really the description is I don't hear them.

Interesting, what else have you compared them with?

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

Folsom said:
You could say a low capacitance cable would be good but... I've had cables that have that claim to fame and they ended up not being so great.

I'm sure cables I prefer are still low capacitance, but it wasn't a helpful determining specification.

For me swapping cables around really is the best way to notice the difference and figure out which ones sound colored etc...

BTW Dave's cables sound the best by far from what I've got experience with. But really the description is I don't hear them.

This is a really old paper but the author does touch on the impact capacitance may have on a cable:

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/CableCapacitance.pdf

Johnny Vinyl · May 1, 2016

witchdoctor said:
Let me give you another example. For years I used a digital cable that I felt was as transparent and neutral as possible. When a vendor I respect asked me to do a shootout with one of his digital cables I accepted partly because I was curious and partly because I was being polite. I didn't expect much because his cable cost roughly 80% less than the one I was using. Once I swapped cables the music sounded fuller. The new cable revealed details in the music I wasn't hearing before. If I had not switched cables I would have been oblivious to the missing amount of details. When I switched back to the old cable I noticed the missing details. The missing details were not evident before changing cables because my system did not sound bad. Only upon hearing the difference with new cable did I realize what I had been missing.

Does that make sense?

I hear ya!

Folsom · May 1, 2016

witchdoctor said:
Interesting, what else have you compared them with?

BJC, Shunyata, Nordost, and rando inexpensive stuff.

Whatmore · May 1, 2016

I look at the inductance and resistance measurements for speaker cables.
Never bought a power cable - the ones that come with the equipment are just fine.

edorr · May 1, 2016

Here is what I do. I shortlist a bunch a highly acclaimed cables; MIT, Transparent, Shunyata, Cardas etc. I research pricing on 2nd hand market. I buy when I come acorss a killer deal and give them an audition. If I don't like them, they go back on audiogon, if I do, I keep them. Through this process I ended up auditioning maybe 3-4 brands and ended up settling for Transparent.

NorthStar · May 1, 2016

I don't listen to cables, I use them to make the connections and listen through them.

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

edorr said:
Here is what I do. I shortlist a bunch a highly acclaimed cables; MIT, Transparent, Shunyata, Cardas etc. I research pricing on 2nd hand market. I buy when I come acorss a killer deal and give them an audition. If I don't like them, they go back on audiogon, if I do, I keep them. Through this process I ended up auditioning maybe 3-4 brands and ended up settling for Transparent.

That's a good idea, thanks for the suggestion.

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

NorthStar said:
I don't listen to cables, I use them to make the connections and listen through them.

Like a straw?

witchdoctor · May 1, 2016

Whatmore said:
I look at the inductance and resistance measurements for speaker cables.
Never bought a power cable - the ones that come with the equipment are just fine.

What's your favorite speaker cable and how did it measure? Thanks

How Do You Shop For Cables?

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