Stereophile and Magico

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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. . . We live in an entertainment economy, even the US presidential campaign has taken that flavor with "Fukcing Wacko" Don vs. "Crooked, sick" Hillary.

. . .

Coming to magico reviews, Wolf has selected guys to review his speakers who have bought in hook, line, and sinker and are so inspired by the product they are blinded to shortcomings of the speaker. They live and breathe magico. They think the speakers are perfect, and everything else sucks. . . .

. . .

His strengths and weight - that have been used to bash his competitors have turned into weaknesses. His hand - picked reviewers are now a liability. Audio fans who like musicality could care less what Mr. Analytic Sound himself, Robert "worthless to the audio fan" Harley or "You don't got magico and soulution , so your system sucks" Fritz, or "Sterile" Jon valin , when misses his electro shock therapy treatments and starts recommending "transparency to source " gear in a magazine branded as the absolute sound…

. . .

I agree with Peter A. But beyond caesar's post being merely an Introspection and Hyperbole Control violation it is filled with sarcasm. Caesar even managed to throw in a violation of the ban on political comments.

I admit to having been a bit disappointed that Robert Harley's almost unqualified review of the Q7 was undermined by his review of the Q7 II, which caused failings of the Q7 suddenly to become apparent. In his review of the Q7 II Robert suggests that the Q7, in retrospect and in comparison to the Q7 II, was a little bit bright and analytical sounding (I know that I am simplifying and summarizing but that was the gist of the revision to his view on the Q7). But I give credit to Robert for acknowledging his original view on the Q7, and correcting it.

Robert's extremely positive review of the MartinLogan Neolith makes crystal clear that he does not believe that Magico "speakers are perfect, and everything else sucks."

I, personally, cannot countenance Jonathan Valin's practice on long term equipment "loans" from manufacturers. But nowhere in Jonathan's review of the M Project does he state or imply that the M Projects "are perfect, and everything else sucks."

On the contrary, I thought that Jonathan, in that review, wrote a thoughtful and introspective survey of the ways in which he believed devotees of other speaker types (horns, electrostatics, darker/warmer sounding box speakers) would view the M Projects. Jonathan clearly appreciated the benefits of other speaker technologies and why their adherents like those other designs.

So I believe that certain statements in caesar's post are not only hyperbolic but are false.
 
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andromedaaudio

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Jan 23, 2011
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Why do magazine readers rely so heavily/seriously on reviewers , half of it is entertainment anyways .
Same goes for politics , before an election its all good based on promises ,...change ,more money more individual freedom and so on , the next 2 years the promises are not being fullfilled and the candidate is hated , and the story repeates itself .
sorry to bring in politics but its merely to show an example
 

cannata

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Jan 30, 2014
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Guys, lets stay focus and keep it real (Cesar is WBF comic relief, I actually learned to enjoy his tourette type outbursts;)).
Just because a speaker comes in pieces, does not mean it is easier to set up. The Wilson Alexia bottom portion weigh almost as much as an S5, and unlike the S5 require two people to get out of the box. It took my dealer (two people) with my help 4 hours to set up the Alexia, the S5 were playing in less then 1/2 an hour from the time the boxes were in the house with no one to help (not ideal but doable). The XLF bottom portion weigh as much as a Q7, and then you got to build it up (and who picked up the ~200 lbs YG 1nd bass module to go on top of the 2nd one??). No disrespect, but I think it is a weak excuse, especially since I am sure the manufacturer do the setup anyway.
 

Elberoth

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Dec 15, 2012
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Guys, lets stay focus and keep it real (Cesar is WBF comic relief, I actually learned to enjoy his tourette type outbursts;)).
The Wilson Alexia bottom portion weigh almost as much as an S5, and unlike the S5 require two people to get out of the box.

Good luck getting the S5 out of the box by yourself. It is not only that each speaker weights 190lbs (90kg), but it is oval, so difficoult to grip firmly (plus the protective, textile 'bag' that covers the whole speaker makes it even worse).

Wilsons roll out of the crates on casters. I did get out of the box and setup my Sashas by myself. I haven't tried this with Alexia, but I think it could be doable.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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We should really appreciate that JA responded here. Sarcasm should not be his reward for doing so.

+1.

And we wonder why it is so hard to get industry folk to contribute to WBF, or any online forum. "No good deed goes unpunished."
 

Joe Whip

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2014
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I agree
The seemingly ever increasing weight of a number of high end speakers is a real practical issue for many people.
JA is right to point out that YGs modular construction makes those speakers less of a logistical nightmare.

Having assisted with putting together and breaking down a pair of Anats a few years ago, I can agree!
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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+1.

And we wonder why it is so hard to get industry folk to contribute to WBF, or any online forum. "No good deed goes unpunished."

+1 from me as well. Although I love Magicos, I refuse to bring any home for audition due to the weight, and I am sure the dealer would want me to pay for doing it themselves (based on the fact they charge for delivery and set up when you do buy the speakers, never mind home-auditioning them beforehand), and I refuse to pay for home auditions.
 

slcaudiophile

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2014
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Um ... SLC?
No, but the YG does break into parts that are much easier to move around, as does the Wilson. And Wilson provides a wheeled dolly with a built-in scissor jack that can be inserted beneath the speaker, then raised to make it relatively easy to maneuver. Moving the one-piece Magico S7, at 300 lbs is a much more difficult task. :-(

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

*** self deleted cause i was being mean ***
 
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microstrip

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(...) Wilsons roll out of the crates on casters. I did get out of the box and setup my Sashas by myself. I haven't tried this with Alexia, but I think it could be doable.

Yes, I did it, as there are no stairs to go into my listening room - otherwise I would not have tried so many heavy speakers. Trucks with hydraulic loading platforms are of great help, minimizing effort. But you have to be very careful to put the upper part of the Alexia in place without damaging the speaker with the upper spikes in place - I protected all the neighboring surfaces with strong cardboard at this phase.
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
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So how come TAS, the Magazine you all like to hate have no such problems? Since we are talking about Wilson and Magico, have a look at some numbers. Since 2004, the year Magico showed the Mini (I think), SP had reviewed 8 Wilson models, practically all the speakers that Wilson came out with, yet only 2 Magico loudspeakers, although I believe they came up with more models then Wilson did. TAS, on the other hand, reviewed a much more balanced assortments from these two companies.
 

Rhapsody

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Good luck getting the S5 out of the box by yourself. It is not only that each speaker weights 190lbs (90kg), but it is oval, so difficoult to grip firmly (plus the protective, textile 'bag' that covers the whole speaker makes it even worse).

Wilsons roll out of the crates on casters. I did get out of the box and setup my Sashas by myself. I haven't tried this with Alexia, but I think it could be doable.

I am 63 years old and I uncrated both my S5II's and my S7's by myself. They literally roll right out of the crate and then into position IF you have no steps. If you have steps to deal with that is another issue. I can't remember when I uncrated the original S5's, but I know I did those myself as well. Although I am used to installing 800 lb. Goldmund Apologues so 200 or 300 lb speakers are welcome challenges for myself.
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
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+1 from me as well. Although I love Magicos, I refuse to bring any home for audition due to the weight, and I am sure the dealer would want me to pay for doing it themselves (based on the fact they charge for delivery and set up when you do buy the speakers, never mind home-auditioning them beforehand), and I refuse to pay for home auditions.

And I specifically ASKED to pay for home auditioning my Kef 207/2. Worked both ways: the dealer earned some money to feed his kids and I did not feel any guilt when decided to buy them elsewhere three months later (since a differen dealer gave me a much better trade-in price for my old speakers).
 

Kal Rubinson

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May 4, 2010
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So how come TAS, the Magazine you all like to hate have no such problems?
Reviewers usually get delivery/assembly/setup assistance provided by the manufacturer of large products. We usually get assistance in repacking for return. Not too arduous.

The Stereophile review process also includes packing/shipping from reviewer to JA, his unpacking/assembly and maneuvering to test them (in involves stairs) and by yet another repacking for p/u.
 

mauidan

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Aug 2, 2010
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I am 63 years old and I uncrated both my S5II's and my S7's by myself. They literally roll right out of the crate and then into position IF you have no steps. If you have steps to deal with that is another issue. I can't remember when I uncrated the original S5's, but I know I did those myself as well. Although I am used to installing 800 lb. Goldmund Apologues so 200 or 300 lb speakers are welcome challenges for myself.

Good for you.:D
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
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Reviewers usually get delivery/assembly/setup assistance provided by the manufacturer of large products. We usually get assistance in repacking for return. Not too arduous.

The Stereophile review process also includes packing/shipping from reviewer to JA, his unpacking/assembly and maneuvering to test them (in involves stairs) and by yet another repacking for p/u.

So how about the S1, or S3, or Q1 or Mini or Mini 2 or V2, are they too heavy as well?
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
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So how about the S1, or S3, or Q1 or Mini or Mini 2 or V2, are they too heavy as well?

You are right of course.... this is so tiresome even though the facts are rather simple. 1. Magico is the most discussed, hottest loudspeaker producer on the planet. 2. Stereophile considers itself a serious high-end magazine. 3. If the two do not meet there can only be two real reasons: the manufacturer refuses to cooperate because of personal issues (the Fremer review, which was spot in my opinion about the boxed-in bass) or Stereophile does not agree with the means (i.e. money) flowing their way. I love both Stereophile and Magico but damn people...grow up. ;)
 

microstrip

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Some manufacturers do not send speakers for formal reviews to magazines that carry and publish full measurements because they feel that measurements can misrepresent their speakers. Could this be the case?

It is a fact that the Magico site is very scarce in measurements, and the reviews linked in their site are mainly subjective.
 

nirodha

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2010
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Some manufacturers do not send speakers for formal reviews to magazines that carry and publish full measurements because they feel that measurements can misrepresent their speakers. Could this be the case?

It is a fact that the Magico site is very scarce in measurements, and the reviews linked in their site are mainly subjective.

From Wikipedia: "Justin Gordon Holt (19 April 1930 – 20 July 2009) was an audio engineer and the founder of Stereophile magazine, and is widely considered to be the founder of the high-end audio movement, which promoted the philosophy of judging sound quality by subjective tests, generally with "cost no object" sound components, including loudspeakers, turntables, amplifiers, vacuum tube components, cables, and other devices. ;-)
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
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Some manufacturers do not send speakers for formal reviews to magazines that carry and publish full measurements because they feel that measurements can misrepresent their speakers. Could this be the case?

It is a fact that the Magico site is very scarce in measurements, and the reviews linked in their site are mainly subjective.

They were measured many times, with excellent results, by many different magazines. Basic fact check is very easy these days...
 
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