I can quite imagine...sounds remarkable. At 8' wide each speaker, according to Micro, that still has to be a big room!
David's room is huge but would still benefit from slightly higher ceiling as well as another 15 feet in both length and width
I can quite imagine...sounds remarkable. At 8' wide each speaker, according to Micro, that still has to be a big room!
The koetsu coral stone is still in play. A guy highly critical of koetsu, who loves vintage TTs, loved the coral stone and blue lace and bought both. Good to have that with an A90 or London decca. Neumann like most of David's stuff is unobtanium
I need to compare a techdas AF3, a Garrard 301, lenco, and a micro Seiko with a kronos or kuzma. That is a drastic reduction in short list.
Virgin screwed me as there flight ran into technical issues and we have been put up at the Venetian in Vegas for the night. I can't even go to the casino as I am getting into vinyl and need to save up.
Ked, you mentioned that you listened to the Koestu Rosewood. Is this the cart you heard or was it the Rosewood Signature or even better, the Rosewood Signature Platinum. There is a pretty big difference between these versions. The RSP is by far the lowest output and to most..the best sounding. The Rosewood Signature is much less resolving and IMO the old Rosewood even less so!
Ked, you mentioned that you listened to the Koestu Rosewood. Is this the cart you heard or was it the Rosewood Signature or even better, the Rosewood Signature Platinum. There is a pretty big difference between these versions. The RSP is by far the lowest output and to most..the best sounding. The Rosewood Signature is much less resolving and IMO the old Rosewood even less so!
bonzo, Do you think the big vintage horns sound most realistic with certain kinds of music rather than other kinds of music?
For example, do you think the big vintage horns playing a solo vocalist with acoustic accompaniment are more convincing than ML electrostatics or Analysis Audio ribbon panels playing the same music?
To start with, there is a much larger difference between horns than between boxes. Stats are actually extremely similar except for some differences which are minor in nature. There is no similarity to the sound between Cessaro, Tune Audio Anima, Trios, etc. A guy who likes Cessaro could like the Logans and not the Anima. The variations in bass, tone, everything, are massive.
Now to vintage horns, which are again different sounding from some other horns. I have heard only two - WE and Bionor. I am not a fan of the K2 or Pro JBL series, haven't heard the vintage. I loved a DIY JBL horn though.
It will be impossible for a stat or analysis to touch the midrange magic of a vintage horn done right. To start with, the valves used, whether David's Lamms or the WE 300bs (at Munich, you might get to hear the WE 300As, each valve costing 15K USD) itself will do more magic than any amp that can drive a panel. Not to mention the speaker midrange itself. Also, these speakers are made for TT playback. Somehow both on Bionors and WE, I did not like digital playback, and even one a 2k DIY TT, the WE made me melt.
I have heard WE both with Line Magnetic and GIP drivers, and you need GIP to get the magic.
I have not heard other vintage horns made from Altec so can't say about those, but they will sound very different. There is a lot of DIY with Altecs too so there will be many differences.
There is the driver, the shape of the horn used, and the crossovers and material. The WE for example are usually made of wood except for the 16A which is made from metal. I love their metal zing on strings.
That was a riot! Thanks for posting it.Virgin screwed me as there flight ran into technical issues and we have been put up at the Venetian in Vegas for the night. I can't even go to the casino as I am getting into vinyl and need to save up.
little bit of language
(...) Also, these speakers are made for TT playback. Somehow both on Bionors and WE, I did not like digital playback, and even one a 2k DIY TT, the WE made me melt. (...)
To start with, there is a much larger difference between horns than between boxes. Stats are actually extremely similar except for some differences which are minor in nature. There is no similarity to the sound between Cessaro, Tune Audio Anima, Trios, etc. A guy who likes Cessaro could like the Logans and not the Anima. The variations in bass, tone, everything, are massive.
There is the driver, the shape of the horn used, and the crossovers and material. The WE for example are usually made of wood except for the 16A which is made from metal. I love their metal zing on strings.
To start with, there is a much larger difference between horns than between boxes. Stats are actually extremely similar except for some differences which are minor in nature. There is no similarity to the sound between Cessaro, Tune Audio Anima, Trios, etc. A guy who likes Cessaro could like the Logans and not the Anima. The variations in bass, tone, everything, are massive.
Now to vintage horns, which are again different sounding from some other horns. I have heard only two - WE and Bionor. I am not a fan of the K2 or Pro JBL series, haven't heard the vintage. I loved a DIY JBL horn though.
It will be impossible for a stat or analysis to touch the midrange magic of a vintage horn done right. To start with, the valves used, whether David's Lamms or the WE 300bs (at Munich, you might get to hear the WE 300As, each valve costing 15K USD) itself will do more magic than any amp that can drive a panel. Not to mention the speaker midrange itself. Also, these speakers are made for TT playback. Somehow both on Bionors and WE, I did not like digital playback, and even one a 2k DIY TT, the WE made me melt.
I have heard WE both with Line Magnetic and GIP drivers, and you need GIP to get the magic.
I have not heard other vintage horns made from Altec so can't say about those, but they will sound very different. There is a lot of DIY with Altecs too so there will be many differences.
There is the driver, the shape of the horn used, and the crossovers and material. The WE for example are usually made of wood except for the 16A which is made from metal. I love their metal zing on strings.
Very interesting. Thank you, bonzo.
This particular aspect worries me. As far as I remember you are mainly a digital (Lampizator) listener. Did you ever experience this "natural sound" you refer with digital and vintage horns or panels?
Which begs the question If I may bonzo, which, if any of the horns that you mention reproduce IYO the closest approximation to the origional Artist/Recording? Ergo those that do not, are they so artificial in accuracy of Tone, Texture, Harmnics etc, etc, etc, to be regarded as massive tone controls ?, albe it pleasing on the ear.
Would you say that the metallic nature of the 16A is incapable of accurately reproducing the harmonic signature of an gut stringed Instrument?
Kudos Bonzo--you followed the Yellow Brick Road!
BruceD
(...) I always enjoyed digital but after finding Lampi I lost interest in digital. There was nothing more to upgrade to, and in hifi, not having the next search can be a bit boring. (...)
(...)
But I can't resist the sound of analog at all now. The one place where digital wins is Mahler, it usually sounds a bit compressed on vinyl. Also the Lampi can give a different soundstage to many TTs which is enjoyable. Bill does play vinyl rips through his Lampi.
The only worrying thing is that the cost of setting up an analog rig from scratch (TT, arms, carts, phono) exceeds the cost of a system with more potential for errors. Digital and amps are so easy to research and compare. Even with speakers, I am getting quite comfortable with my choices at medium and long-term price points.
A panel gives a very natural sound, and it is not required to upgrade from there unless you have a lot of money and want the best. Bionors and WE require a lot of space and budget. WE 16A is medium priced but not available used and requires less space. Don't forget that David owned a lot of apogees before his Bionors
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