I can't keep up with all of the versions of the Linn LP-12. I didn't know the Lingo was the holy grail. I just know that LP-12s seem to be going cheap on Audiogon whatever version(s) they are. The LP-12 started off in life as a better built AR turntable, right down to it's felt mat. The LP-12 had a better bearing and better tonearm than the AR. But then the AR only sold for around $75 when it was new.
The LP-12 has never been on my wish list of tables I wanted to own and so it shall remain that way.
Mark, The Lingo is the power supply. An upgrade from the Basik and Valhalla power supply. The Radikal is an upgrade power supply over the Lingo and so it's now the 'Holy Grail'.
The Lingo 1 (known as the shoe box design) has to have been around for probably 25 years now. My point is that these are still in high demand and the newer Lingo versions are in even higher demand.
I used to own an AR, while for its time it was very good, one couldn't really compare it to a current, fully-decked out LP12. ( or even for that matter a Valhalla LP12). BTW, if you haven't heard a recent LP12, then I would suggest booking a listen. While the latest version isn't quite up to a Walker or TW, it is still one of the better tables, IMHO.
I'm a long term Linnie. Had a Sondek for 20+ years and dutifully did every new upgrade. That said, I'm of two minds regarding the Sondek. If you're getting into vinyl, buying a used LP12 is a great deal. For the (used) money, it's a terrific value. It's faults are sonically pleasant and it's quirks are endearing. However, for the cost of a new current spec Sondek, there are many contenders that don't have it's, er charms/quirks.
Mark, The Lingo is the power supply. An upgrade from the Basik and Valhalla power supply. The Radikal is an upgrade power supply over the Lingo and so it's now the 'Holy Grail'.
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As you refer, the Basik, Vallhalla and Lingo are power supplies for the AC synchronous motor of the Linn Sondek. I have owned several Sondek's, all of them bough second hand, the last one had a Lingo. When I decided to sell this one I posted an advert but it found no buyer, as it was an expensive item. So, I separated the lot - took the Lingo and switch and sold it the same day I advertise it. Next I bough an used Valhalla at eBay very cheaply and sold the Sondek with it also very fast ...
The Radikal is a different drive system - it includes a power supply and a completely new DC motor. Although the Sondek was an evolutionary concept, there is very little in common between the original Linn Sondek and current ones.
Anybody who pays $4250 for some upgrade parts for this wacky turntable gets what they deserve. $4250 will buy you a brand new turntable that you won't need a Linn tech to keep it "in tune." $4250 will buy you a great used turntable if you go that route. Spending $4250 to buy some parts for an LP-12 just doesn't make sense to me. I bought a Technics SP-10 MKII in nice condition and a brand new SME 312S tonearm for less than the cost of the latest LP-12 upgrade. I'm pretty sure that the speed stability of the Technics SP-10 MKII is much better than the LP-12 and probably every other parameter that you can measure.
mep, It's very easy to go to Pinkfishmedia to see if you can hear differences between turntables(or set-ups) or not. It's up to you to decide. One song to check out is "Get Back" by the Beatles. It's on page 50 something. I believe John has the Lp12 without Radikal, and the other turntable is the SP 10. It's also up to you to decide if "needle drops" reveal anything, but I don't think that it hurts to at least listen. I agree that $4250 for the Radikal upgrade is crazy money(It's just the dc motor and supply.).
Anybody who pays $4250 for some upgrade parts for this wacky turntable gets what they deserve. $4250 will buy you a brand new turntable that you won't need a Linn tech to keep it "in tune." $4250 will buy you a great used turntable if you go that route. Spending $4250 to buy some parts for an LP-12 just doesn't make sense to me. I bought a Technics SP-10 MKII in nice condition and a brand new SME 312S tonearm for less than the cost of the latest LP-12 upgrade. I'm pretty sure that the speed stability of the Technics SP-10 MKII is much better than the LP-12 and probably every other parameter that you can measure.
Problem with that logic Mark is that's exactly the advertising Technics used when they launched their DD turntables. You could stand on the platter and it would rotate at the same speed. Problem was that the little AR tt kicked the Technics in the ass when it came to sound Heard it with my own two ears.
You heard the AR kick the SP-10 MKII's ass? I owned both the original AR and the revised AR with an MMT tonearm. My SOTA Star Sapphire was in a different league. I think my current VPI TNT with SDS is at least the equal of the SOTA I owned. MikeL owned basically the same TNT I have and he said the SP-10 MKII is way better. Albert Porter told me that he sold his Walker after hearing the SP-10 MKII with an SME 312S.
Anybody who pays $4250 for some upgrade parts for this wacky turntable gets what they deserve. $4250 will buy you a brand new turntable that you won't need a Linn tech to keep it "in tune." $4250 will buy you a great used turntable if you go that route. Spending $4250 to buy some parts for an LP-12 just doesn't make sense to me. I bought a Technics SP-10 MKII in nice condition and a brand new SME 312S tonearm for less than the cost of the latest LP-12 upgrade. I'm pretty sure that the speed stability of the Technics SP-10 MKII is much better than the LP-12 and probably every other parameter that you can measure.
We should not forget that you need an aftermarket plinth costing near the price of the Linn upgrade to be able to listen to the good qualities of the SP10 mkII. I have owned it with the original Technics Obsidian base and it was not in the class of the Linn Sondek.
BTW, acoustic feedback in turntables can be measured and was a strong point of turntables having a suspension.
No, the Linn and Technics did not have the exact same arm and cartridge. I do wonder what effect the Mana table had on the Linn. It's a pain(time-consuming) to look up the setups. I just tried to remember what was important to me. Next time I look, I will write down the setups.
The reason I asked the question was because if the tonearms and cartridges were different (and you said they were), then you aren't listening to the difference between the Technics and the LP-12.
I have owned both, and from my experience I can not think of a tonearm that can be a synergistic match with both turntables. The best match I had on the SP10 was a SMEV and an ETII- both an absolute disaster in the Linn Sondek . The only tonearms that I have owned that I used with success in the Linn were a great sounding Sirynx PU3 - unhappily it suffered from mistracking at the end of the LP - an Ittok and the great Naim Aro. I also survived sometime with a Sumiko MDC800 in the Sondek (I only bough this particular used Sondek to get this tonearm that was fitted in it...) , but was not an ideal match.
If you want to have the best from a turntable you must match it with an appropriate tonearm and cartridge - the Sondek loved the Koetsus. The SP10 with the SMEV was a great platform for my van den Hul Black Beauty.
I have owned both, and from my experience I can not think of a tonearm that can be a synergistic match with both turntables. The best match I had on the SP10 was a SMEV and an ETII- both an absolute disaster in the Linn Sondek . The only tonearms that I have owned that I used with success in the Linn were a great sounding Sirynx PU3 - unhappily it suffered from mistracking at the end of the LP - an Ittok and the great Naim Aro. I also survived sometime with a Sumiko MDC800 in the Sondek (I only bough this particular used Sondek to get this tonearm that was fitted in it...) , but was not an ideal match.
If you want to have the best from a turntable you must match it with an appropriate tonearm and cartridge - the Sondek loved the Koetsus. The SP10 with the SMEV was a great platform for my van den Hul Black Beauty.
Roger, I'm not microstrip But could you tell me what you think needs to be restored on your LP12. What power supply, is it the Nirvana or Valhalla? Depending on condition and power supply, you may want to invest in new springs/grommets and maybe a Cirkus upgrade to replace the bearing. If budget allows, maybe an upgrade to a Lingo...shoe box will be cheaper, but i personally prefer the Lingo 2 or better still the Lingo 3 if funds allow. Upgrading the sub-chassis probably isn't going to be in the budget.
Roger, I'm not microstrip But could you tell me what you think needs to be restored on your LP12. What power supply, is it the Nirvana or Valhalla? Depending on condition and power supply, you may want to invest in new springs/grommets and maybe a Cirkus upgrade to replace the bearing. If budget allows, maybe an upgrade to a Lingo...shoe box will be cheaper, but i personally prefer the Lingo 2 or better still the Lingo 3 if funds allow. Upgrading the sub-chassis probably isn't going to be in the budget.
I purchased this table in or about 1980 new,it's bone stock and if I remember gave 400.00 for it. I would probably replace the power supply and bearing. Besides microstrip mentioning the Koetsus,what are other choices along with a cartridge.
Roger, I use a WTA arm that works very well with the Linn. Of the arms that i have heard, the Naim Aro is the leading contender, with the Ekos Se as a second. I have heard the Linn with a Graham that was also a great match, cannot remember which Graham, BUT the Graham factory will sell you an armboard for their arm. I think that the more heavier arms are to be kept away from, the SME's and the Triplanar's don't work well. As for cartridges, I also like the Koetsu's along with the Benz's which are a good match, IMO. The various Linn cartridges can sound fine as well, but personally, I prefer the first two.
Interestingly, a friend owned a Linn with an Eminent Tech arm that seemed to be ok, although I preferred my specific WTA to that combo.
The traditional LP12 with an Ittok or Ekos or Ekos SE with Linn cartridge is what the Linn dealer most likely will suggest.
To be fair, I would not spend usd 2500 on a 30 year old Linn . I would either spend around usd 500-800 maximum refurbishing and upgrading it, or I would buy a different turntable.
If the turntable was not abused the bearing would still be perfect - it was built with Teflon and should last indefinitely if there is oil inside. I would however replace the suspension springs with the black steel type, and may be the armboard with a sandwich type. Some people reinforced the bearing zone with large thick washers and epoxy (Araldite type), or a machined part long before the Cirkus.
If you are a DIY man, look for parts for the upgrade at the UK eBay - many people who upgrade their turntables will dump the old parts there for a cheap price. You can get the needed Linn custom oil for the bearing also there - the oil is mandatory.
The Lingo was really too expensive for just a 95V power sine oscillator. If you get an old PS300 power supply and a 22 nF (I have to check this value ) capacitor you can have a cheap Lingo. Or, if you turntable has a pulley that matches your mains frequency build your own Naim Armageddon.
Surely, the upgrade strategy will depend on the exact model and condition of your LP12.
Just editing my post to add the more needed upgrade to a 30 year old Linn - a new belt!
