Yes, and that's new information to us. The product is basically new, so we're hearing about the reliability for the first time. The question came up (indirectly) and was answered.
Shunyata Venom XLRs
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Yes, and that's new information to us. The product is basically new, so we're hearing about the reliability for the first time. The question came up (indirectly) and was answered.
To be clear, my response was to these specific comments:
>>"I wouldn’t touch the Venoms, no matter how good they may sound. Their XLRs look pretty, but are substandard. As described in this post, the female is a poor design, similar to cheap cables offered by Monoprice and Hosa.<<"
Having had no hands on or anecdotal experience, these comments were based on a partial photo of a female connector. The comments were not qualified or measured, but stated as fact. I replied with facts. The connector is not a re-issue of another design. Metals are of the highest quality. The connectors are custom-manufactured, not copies of Hosa or Monoprice (no idea who those companies are). The connectors were stress-tested and passed every test we have to give a connector. No broken pins, connector ends or bent metals, either in our bench tests or in the field.
I've no idea why this would be "news", but just because a connector has a minor design element in common with another connector that failed, does not mean all will fail with a similar minor element in common. Even individual runs of industry standard, reliable connectors can fail. Material differences alone can make all the difference, i.e.: metal types, manufacturing processes and metals reinforcement. Even which factory builds the connectors, what corners are cut or not cut to save or spend a nickel per connector--It ALL matters and a photo tells you NONE of that. Even knowing half of these facts makes accepting comments like these hard to manage.
Isn't pointing to a partial photo of a single part on a female XLR connector to say, " the female is a poor design, similar to cheap cables" an unsupportable comment? No hands on needed? No knowledge of the specific design, the metals, the stress-tests involved, what was spent, or what the QC controls were? No homework, just a random comment based on looking at a photo of a single part of a female XLR. No responsibility to be fair or accurate. Just fire away. Great.
Regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
>>"I wouldn’t touch the Venoms, no matter how good they may sound. Their XLRs look pretty, but are substandard. As described in this post, the female is a poor design, similar to cheap cables offered by Monoprice and Hosa.<<"
Having had no hands on or anecdotal experience, these comments were based on a partial photo of a female connector. The comments were not qualified or measured, but stated as fact. I replied with facts. The connector is not a re-issue of another design. Metals are of the highest quality. The connectors are custom-manufactured, not copies of Hosa or Monoprice (no idea who those companies are). The connectors were stress-tested and passed every test we have to give a connector. No broken pins, connector ends or bent metals, either in our bench tests or in the field.
I've no idea why this would be "news", but just because a connector has a minor design element in common with another connector that failed, does not mean all will fail with a similar minor element in common. Even individual runs of industry standard, reliable connectors can fail. Material differences alone can make all the difference, i.e.: metal types, manufacturing processes and metals reinforcement. Even which factory builds the connectors, what corners are cut or not cut to save or spend a nickel per connector--It ALL matters and a photo tells you NONE of that. Even knowing half of these facts makes accepting comments like these hard to manage.
Isn't pointing to a partial photo of a single part on a female XLR connector to say, " the female is a poor design, similar to cheap cables" an unsupportable comment? No hands on needed? No knowledge of the specific design, the metals, the stress-tests involved, what was spent, or what the QC controls were? No homework, just a random comment based on looking at a photo of a single part of a female XLR. No responsibility to be fair or accurate. Just fire away. Great.
Regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
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Grant,
It's impossible to keep up with everything in audio. Our exposure might be just this thread at this time. You can relax, I don't think anyone doubts what you've told us. In the face of an adverse situation you've kept your cool and stated the facts. I believe everyone reading has confidence that your connectors are good. Don't worry about people that get caught up in incessant non-emperical non-experience debate - they don't buy anything or reflect the people that do.
Notice Hosa and Monoprice don't chime in on forums because they have inferior products and it's bad for them to raise any attention.
It's impossible to keep up with everything in audio. Our exposure might be just this thread at this time. You can relax, I don't think anyone doubts what you've told us. In the face of an adverse situation you've kept your cool and stated the facts. I believe everyone reading has confidence that your connectors are good. Don't worry about people that get caught up in incessant non-emperical non-experience debate - they don't buy anything or reflect the people that do.
Notice Hosa and Monoprice don't chime in on forums because they have inferior products and it's bad for them to raise any attention.
I've purchased quite a bit of Shunyata product like many others across many boards. It's a very high profile high end audio company and all the products I have purchased have always been exemplary and at the forefront in terms of sound quality and also build quality. They are certainly a company that seems to place a high deal of emphasis on their reputation and also their efforts in maintaining a quality connection with their product users across many forums as well.
I can't imagine Shunyata or Caelin ever throwing their reputation away by allowing anything go out to market without well considered confidence that the newly released gear will perform to their traditional level. Even a brief look around forums on the experiences of typical Shunyata user will reveal few tales that I've ever seen on any of reliability issues, I can't actually recall any... plus quite an impressive array of comments on fundamental and significant system improvements from even more very committed and happy long term users of Shunyata power conditioning and power and signal cables... with mostly that very vast majority almost universally singing their praises.
Not just Triton, Cyclops and Typhon, but through Zitron, Alpha and now Sigma, and with the promise of Denali to come... all proving big moves forward in performance at their price point at every new release. No recalls or design lemons... not a one, just I'd say hit after hit. It's easy to forget just how impressive the Shunyata design track history has actually become over these years.
Perhaps looking up from an armchair briefly and glancing at a pic on line and just completely dismissing the design from one of our more well known and well established design firms is hardly what could be called a quality engineering assessment in action. With respect more light weight and regrettably lacking in real experience with the gear being discussed. It does highlight the downside of being a quality business in the age of mass media commentary tho. More power to them I say.
I can't imagine Shunyata or Caelin ever throwing their reputation away by allowing anything go out to market without well considered confidence that the newly released gear will perform to their traditional level. Even a brief look around forums on the experiences of typical Shunyata user will reveal few tales that I've ever seen on any of reliability issues, I can't actually recall any... plus quite an impressive array of comments on fundamental and significant system improvements from even more very committed and happy long term users of Shunyata power conditioning and power and signal cables... with mostly that very vast majority almost universally singing their praises.
Not just Triton, Cyclops and Typhon, but through Zitron, Alpha and now Sigma, and with the promise of Denali to come... all proving big moves forward in performance at their price point at every new release. No recalls or design lemons... not a one, just I'd say hit after hit. It's easy to forget just how impressive the Shunyata design track history has actually become over these years.
Perhaps looking up from an armchair briefly and glancing at a pic on line and just completely dismissing the design from one of our more well known and well established design firms is hardly what could be called a quality engineering assessment in action. With respect more light weight and regrettably lacking in real experience with the gear being discussed. It does highlight the downside of being a quality business in the age of mass media commentary tho. More power to them I say.
In my nearly 30 years in pro audio, both in a professional and non-professional capacity, the only time I’ve ever seen a connector fail in regular, non-abusive use (meaning it wasn’t damage by some event like a truck running over it), it has always been a female XLR of the type in question. So perhaps you can understand why for me the “red flags” go off when I see one on a recommended product.
I feel this is a relevant concern for those audiophiles who regularly swap equipment in and out of their racks, because the failures I’ve seen occurred merely from constant unplugging and re-connecting of the female end – nothing more strenuous or abusive than that. No connector should fail from that kind benign, basic use. (When was the last time you had to discard a bad set of RCA cables because the connectors failed??)
But again, I’m happy to hear (as I’m sure all of us here are) that Grant has had success with his particular version of this XLR.
For those of you buying XLR cables for your systems with similar-looking female ends, there’s an easy way to verify their build quality. Do yourself a favor and invest $30-$40 in a common mic cable with Neutrik XLRs. Plug the female end into the male and try to wriggle it. You will see there is virtually no movement from the female.
Now plug the female end of your audio cable into the male end of the mic cable. If there is virtually no movement when you wriggle it around, all is good. But if there is a lot of movement, then you have a poorly-made connector that will eventually fail if you unplug and re-connect it enough times. As discussed in the post I linked previously, the sloppy fit of the female connector will cause its sockets to be wallowed out by the pins from the male connector, so eventually the male pins will no longer tightly fit in the sockets.
To be clear, I’m merely speaking of the connector’s physical attributes, not of anything related to its potential sound quality.
I apologize for offending Grant, but anytime I see anyone recommending cables with female XLRs having this visual appearance, I’m going to sound a warning. Just because the Venom’s connectors are of suitable quality, that doesn’t mean the next one will be.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
"You will see there is virtually no movement from the female"...can't argue with that...
You've also offended me and others who believe in and support SR products by questioning the quality and integrity of SR products. You don't seem to understand this.
So please explain again why you are posting regarding this specific product.
Please, no need to worry about my feelings, Wayne. I don't take these things personally, but you did address our product in a rather specific manner with circles, arrows and very pointed, pejorative comments. I appreciate that you included context this time rather than a simple, unsupported statment of fact, so that's a positive step.
We've tested tolerances and fit of all the connectors, XLR and RCA and so have our dealers, world wide. We've received no complaints. There have been no failures. No manufacturer wants to risk parts failures (for obvious reasons) and we go to extraordinary lengths to make sure there won't be any. In the rare event there were a part issue, we'd replace the product, but it hasn't happened. I appreciate that your motivation appears to be as a consumer advocate. I applaud that, but still sense a disingenuous tone. Maybe its me.
We have a great deal of experience with connectors too, Wayne. I'm on record here saying our connectors are mechanically sound and will last the life-time of the cable no mater how many times somebody wants to remove and re-place it. If for any reason they don't, we'd replace it free of charge -- as we would virtually anything we build. You are free to disagree based on your own experience with other connectors, but that would not include ours.
Neutrik makes great connectors. We've used them in past designs and in general were happy with them. Believe it or not, we had some failures with those connectors in stress testing (broken pins), but nothing outside the norm. There is nothing wrong with our XLR connectors, Wayne. They've been thoroughly tested. You are free to disagree. Let's leave it at that and move on to more productive pursuits.
Regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
It's a good thing to be concerned about quality in the products we buy and use. I have personally taken a lesson from the discussion here that not all similar-appearing components are the same. I applaud Grant's professionalism in conducting his side of the conversation amid early accusations of poor quality connectors, which seems to have been handled to the satisfaction of all.
Now, may we please return to discussion of the Venom cables?
Lee
Now, may we please return to discussion of the Venom cables?
Lee
..since I'm the OP let just tie a bow around this by saying if these XLRs sound half as good as they look they're are a winner. And for $295 it's hard to argue that Shunyata hasn't stepped up to the bar big time with this offering...well done Shunyata!
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