FM review

Dave_A

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Feb 25, 2013
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Hi Dave_A,

I do not understand what you mean by my articles. I am not a writer nor am I a reviewer. I do not write articles.

Manuel's factory is in Switzerland but he resides somewhere in Asia.

If you want an FMA piece bad enough, you will save up for it.

ok, no problem, i misunderstood...

asia? where did you hear this? that means he's not even there to oversee his own factory, leaving it to someone else...to me that is kind of risky. it doesn't show me too much dedication either. oh well...

save up for it? until when? when i'm 90 years old and my hearing is shot?! lol.
 

mullard88

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Jun 5, 2010
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Hi Dave_A,

We spoke and texted when he needed help with a problem.

How about attending more musical events instead?
 

Dave_A

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Feb 25, 2013
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Hi Dave_A,

We spoke and texted when he needed help with a problem.

How about attending more musical events instead?

ok, that's cool...

well, there's that, and there's purchase of amp or what have you, of brands that are less expensive...

sorry, i love fm just as much as the next guy, but the prices are just not realistic for 99 percent of the population...but it's not my company and basically they can price the stuff at whatever they damn well see fit, lol....:p:cool:
 

jadis

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Apr 28, 2010
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I have listened to FM Acoustics many years back, and had the privilege of meeting Manuel Huber twice when he conducted audio sessions in Manila. Very nice fellow and can be quite funny too. I have good impressions of his amps and preamps producing good music and I remember over the top of my head, words like 'musical', "smooth" and 'full of body" when I think of the brand, even now. The amp I heard many years ago was very small compared to say, the the Krells, but they pack a wallop in wattage, like what I heard was a 250 watts amp driving a B&W801 S2. I remember the gang was clamoring for some fireworks and the owner gladly put on Telarc's Time Warp by Erich Kunzel, and at the end of the record, everyone was clapping their hands. :D

Manny Huber himself conducted a demo in a local audiophile's house, and the system was Krell based with a pair of B&W800s and the front end was a Forsell Air Reference turntable and tonearm. Manny brought his own LPs, and the one I couldn't forget was Harry Belafonte's Carnegie Hall LP on RCA. He brought an original. That was the first time I heard the 'depth' of Belafonte's vocal cords, like I can see through down his throat when he sung Cuckooroocucoo....It was an amazing experience. And he let the audience decide for themselves, never uttering any negative words about his competition. Great guy.

But as everyone knows by now, what's not too great is the price. :D
 

Dave_A

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Feb 25, 2013
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I have listened to FM Acoustics many years back, and had the privilege of meeting Manuel Huber twice when he conducted audio sessions in Manila. Very nice fellow and can be quite funny too. I have good impressions of his amps and preamps producing good music and I remember over the top of my head, words like 'musical', "smooth" and 'full of body" when I think of the brand, even now. The amp I heard many years ago was very small compared to say, the the Krells, but they pack a wallop in wattage, like what I heard was a 250 watts amp driving a B&W801 S2. I remember the gang was clamoring for some fireworks and the owner gladly put on Telarc's Time Warp by Erich Kunzel, and at the end of the record, everyone was clapping their hands. :D

Manny Huber himself conducted a demo in a local audiophile's house, and the system was Krell based with a pair of B&W800s and the front end was a Forsell Air Reference turntable and tonearm. Manny brought his own LPs, and the one I couldn't forget was Harry Belafonte's Carnegie Hall LP on RCA. He brought an original. That was the first time I heard the 'depth' of Belafonte's vocal cords, like I can see through down his throat when he sung Cuckooroocucoo....It was an amazing experience. And he let the audience decide for themselves, never uttering any negative words about his competition. Great guy.

But as everyone knows by now, what's not too great is the price. :D

manuel is a great guy, no doubt about it...there should be more people like him in the high end audio business...and regarding the price, only very few can afford fm, andmanuel ain't lowering the prices anytime soon...the prices strike me as elitism and greed. sorry, as cool of a guy as manuel is, even people who make even 250k usd would have a hard time buying it...that's basically it for that part.

anyway, great story and thanks for sharing that. i agree that listening to fm is an experience rather than just sitting in front of audio equipment with mostly boring sound...
 

853guy

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Aug 14, 2013
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manuel is a great guy, no doubt about it...there should be more people like him in the high end audio business...and regarding the price, only very few can afford fm, andmanuel ain't lowering the prices anytime soon...the prices strike me as elitism and greed. sorry, as cool of a guy as manuel is, even people who make even 250k usd would have a hard time buying it...that's basically it for that part.

anyway, great story and thanks for sharing that. i agree that listening to fm is an experience rather than just sitting in front of audio equipment with mostly boring sound...

Manufacturing and marketing in Switzerland is simply not comparable to manufacturing and marketing in the US.

Switzerland has a total area of 41,284 sq/km, ranking it 132nd in the world, with 230 times less land area than the US (9,525,067 sq/km). A smaller territory leads to higher prices for land and elements thereof, including rent as below.

Switzerland has four official languages, making marketing and regulatory adherence significantly more expensive.

Employee wages are also hugely disproportionate. Zurich, where FM Acoustics is based has a resident taking home an average of $41* an hour. The United States has an average hourly rate of $10.66. The cost of living indicator is also disproportionate, in which a good or service costing $1.00 US is equivalent to $1.95 in Switzerland.

However, f we compare Colorado Springs where Boulder Amplifiers makes their amps with Zurich where FM Acoustics make theirs, consumer prices are 44.93% lower in Colorado Springs, local (not global) purchasing power is 4.51% higher, and the price per square meter for property is 89.49% lower (Colorado Springs is $1,489.29 per sq/m versus $14,170.55 per sq/m in Zurich).

It’s simply more expensive to live, work, own land and make things in Switzerland.

*All figures USD.
 
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Folsom

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What you say is true except that neither company markets locally (if at all).
 

853guy

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What you say is true except that neither company markets locally (if at all).

Hi Folsom,

Do you mean that FM Acoustics and Boulder's markets are mainly non-domestic in that they're primarily selling to Asian, Russian and Middle Eastern clients? If so, yes, that's probably the case I imagine.

I think my point was that if you have a marketing team (or client relations, or reps, however they're designated), as opposed to those directly involved in the production of the products, then they'll be travelling from either Zurich or Colorado Springs to represent products to client bases overseas, while still being part of a workforce that's subject to the same pay scale, living costs, etc, relative to their cities of residence. I.e., in both cases as an employer you're still paying more for a Zurich-based employee of similar skill relative to one that's based in Colorado Springs.
 

Folsom

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Good points but again I don't think either do that... They're almost elusive. They have dealers that know if people will spend the asking price, and they do everything besides make it. The price and allure of happy customers is plenty when you're looking to buy as good as money will do.
 

853guy

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Aug 14, 2013
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Good points but again I don't think either do that... They're almost elusive. They have dealers that know if people will spend the asking price, and they do everything besides make it. The price and allure of happy customers is plenty when you're looking to buy as good as money will do.

Hey,

You may be right. I guess it's possible the economies of scale don't allow for sales and marketing to fall to individuals or teams within a niche company, which is essentially what FM Acoustics and Boulder are probably best described as. (Although I thought Rich Maez was head of sales and marketing for Boulder...?)

I've met international sales and marketing individuals from Harman, Loewe, Sonus Faber, Naim Audio, Denon, Linn, et al, whose role it was to ensure their products were represented accordingly in various territories (and let's be honest, sell way more product than than FM Acoustics and Boulder, they're obviously not chasing the same dollars), but that being said, it was the early- to mid-2000's. It's certainly possible those hats are now on fewer heads with the bulk of them being worn by distributors/dealers given the shrinking of the global market.
 

Folsom

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You have to consider all those other companies have a lot of competition since they sell in a wide range of pricing. FMA and Boulder simply do not. I'm sure they have a "marketing guy" whom probably does a lot of things, but more akin to just speaking with dealers, making hand literature for the dealers, and deciding if they should let someone do a review.

Do a search for Harman on Indeed.com, you'll understand the intense size and scale of their operation, compared to two moderately sized manufacturing buildings of FMA and Boulder.
 

853guy

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Aug 14, 2013
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You have to consider all those other companies have a lot of competition since they sell in a wide range of pricing. FMA and Boulder simply do not. I'm sure they have a "marketing guy" whom probably does a lot of things, but more akin to just speaking with dealers, making hand literature for the dealers, and deciding if they should let someone do a review.

Do a search for Harman on Indeed.com, you'll understand the intense size and scale of their operation, compared to two moderately sized manufacturing buildings of FMA and Boulder.

Oh, for sure.

The reason I mentioned Harman (publicly listed), Loewe (part owned by Stargate Capital), Naim (Vervent Audio Group owned by Naxicap Partners & Aquasourça), Sonus Faber (Find Sounds), Denon (D&M Holdings), et al, is that their capitalization structure is significantly different to that of privately owned companies such as Boulder and FM Acoustics. Linn is still privately owned as far as I'm aware?
 

Dave_A

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Feb 25, 2013
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Manufacturing and marketing in Switzerland is simply not comparable to manufacturing and marketing in the US.

Switzerland has a total area of 41,284 sq/km, ranking it 132nd in the world, with 230 times less land area than the US (9,525,067 sq/km). A smaller territory leads to higher prices for land and elements thereof, including rent as below.

Switzerland has four official languages, making marketing and regulatory adherence significantly more expensive.

Employee wages are also hugely disproportionate. Zurich, where FM Acoustics is based has a resident taking home an average of $41* an hour. The United States has an average hourly rate of $10.66. The cost of living indicator is also disproportionate, in which a good or service costing $1.00 US is equivalent to $1.95 in Switzerland.

However, f we compare Colorado Springs where Boulder Amplifiers makes their amps with Zurich where FM Acoustics make theirs, consumer prices are 44.93% lower in Colorado Springs, local (not global) purchasing power is 4.51% higher, and the price per square meter for property is 89.49% lower (Colorado Springs is $1,489.29 per sq/m versus $14,170.55 per sq/m in Zurich).

It’s simply more expensive to live, work, own land and make things in Switzerland.

*All figures USD.


ok, granted...but that still doesn't justify those kind of prices...i mean 80-100k for an amp? how is that possibly worth that much? is there a gold bullion in there from a swiss bank?

the real answer is the prices verge on the extremely absurd.

fm is made pretty much the same as it was 20-25 years ago, and the prices are 3-4 times as much...a flagship preamp + amp combo shouldn't be priced more than 50k usd...ok 75k at the very most...but 200k (or is it 250k?) usd for the 268 = 1811? come the F on! how can those prices be justified? i refuse to believe that reflect salaries and manafacture only..prove it to me and we shall see...and guess what? manuel or no high end company with absurd prices will show you? why? because they would be embarrased and prosecuted for ripping off the consumer ie fraud..there are laws against this in many countries. another reason is profit, greed, and elitism...

however, it is a free market, and if people are so stupid to pay 100k for an amp, well let them...if fm or any other overpriced brand, which are quite a few high end companies, are able to sell at that price, more power to them! i just can't believe people rich or not are willing and definitely do pay the ultra inflated prices of fm, boulder (their equipment is very underwhelming to me,) pass labs xs series (great stuff but way overpriced, but they do make lower cost but still high quality stuff) soulution (also swiss made, and is excellent and is not quite as much as fm, proof that swiss made stuff does not have to cost what fm does) technical brain (which is unreliable crap,) and quite a few more...

listen i like and appreciate high end audio, but the prices of fm just boggle my mind. i am very perplexed that anyone would buy this stuff! high end audio has always been expensive but not like this, my lord! aye yi yi..i'm getting a headache typing this...end of rant! (for now!)
 

Folsom

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You pay much higher markup day to day buying things from say, Walmart or whatever.

Really though, it's not like you bought something from them and feel you've been ripped off, and we all know the prices so maybe give it a rest? Go design your own equipment if you're so upset. That or post about amazing gear that isn't those companies?

BTW where are these laws? Cuba? Iran? North Korea? That makes no sense to me.
 

Dave_A

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Feb 25, 2013
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You pay much higher markup day to day buying things from say, Walmart or whatever.

Really though, it's not like you bought something from them and feel you've been ripped off, and we all know the prices so maybe give it a rest? Go design your own equipment if you're so upset. That or post about amazing gear that isn't those companies?

BTW where are these laws? Cuba? Iran? North Korea? That makes no sense to me.


perhaps, but that's not the point...we are talking about audio equipment, not a alarm clock from made in china mart...

no man, i don't feel ripped off...i feel left out..i do want fm in the worst way, but i can't have it, damnit. i am hardly upset if that is truly what you are thinking...however, i am a bit irritated that i have to settle for stuff such as bryston, which is great stuff as my 4bsst is arguably more powerful and definitely more reliable than the 611 was. but it doesn't quite have the sound as you can well imagine!

they arecalled consumer protection laws...most developed countries have them, there's no way you'll own a high end system in north korea unless you are 1 of the party's elite...hell, the lights go out there as soon as it gets dark...
 

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