Thank you j, I was hoping that you might contribute given your first hand experience on this topic, If I may, With regard purely to the fidelity of playback, would you as a staring point personally prefer Vivaldi Player and DAC Or Vivaldi DAC and Clock ?
DCS Or LAMPIZATOR- YOUR CONSIDERATIONS.
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Thank you j, I was hoping that you might contribute given your first hand experience on this topic, If I may, With regard purely to the fidelity of playback, would you as a staring point personally prefer Vivaldi Player and DAC Or Vivaldi DAC and Clock ?
I'd go for a 'dsd only' GG myself given those choices; and then upsample PCM to Quad dsd with JRiver or HQ Player. which is what I'm doing now. I had the very expensive Trinity dac but recently sold it.
not that the dCS might not take you further in terms of detail retrieval than the GG; but my perception is that this is a time of transition in dacs; and soon we will see dacs that can do both PCM and dsd at higher levels and for more modest dollars. maybe if you are getting the dCS used then both make sense. but the GG is modestly priced for it's performance, and likely will retain value far better than the dCS and so the 'real' net cost of your next upgrade will be much less painful.
I love what I hear from my GG, and tube rolling is fun. but will it last 9 years for me like my Playback Designs? no....not likely.
so what is your 'end game' for this dac you buy? that is the question.
tt's and arms; more long term keepers.
not that the dCS might not take you further in terms of detail retrieval than the GG; but my perception is that this is a time of transition in dacs; and soon we will see dacs that can do both PCM and dsd at higher levels and for more modest dollars. maybe if you are getting the dCS used then both make sense. but the GG is modestly priced for it's performance, and likely will retain value far better than the dCS and so the 'real' net cost of your next upgrade will be much less painful.
I love what I hear from my GG, and tube rolling is fun. but will it last 9 years for me like my Playback Designs? no....not likely.
so what is your 'end game' for this dac you buy? that is the question.
tt's and arms; more long term keepers.
Really! I thought you were all for NAT audio. Did you audition the 800a's with the Lampizator ? my friend had the B-1000f's for a while and I thought them on the slightly soft side of neutral, hence my thoughts re such an amplifier matched with a valve source.
Hi I love the NATs. But having that hot amps with that high plate voltage in my room is a no-no. Nothing against them sonically. And I suspect if I go Analysis I will need more power on the Omega. So I started thinking of Ypsilon or Lamm hybrids as alternatives
I compared Luxman M800 only to Ypsilon Aelius on the Giya G1, and that is where I preferred them. No further experience with them. Kind of A/Bing one thing against another to progressively rule out components. This was at Joel's place, and his source was Lumin, which he prefers to his Esoteric K (03, probably). Coincident pre with 101D replicas
Me to as the same improvement I have heard with the 3 dCS clocks I added over the years. The U Clock to my Puccini, the Scarlatti Clock with my Scarlatti stack and the Vivaldi Clock with my Vivaldi stack. I could even hear a distinct improvement from the Scarlatti Clock vs Vivaldi Clock as I had them side by side for a bit...
I am very happy with the DCS sound and in my experience adding a word clock does make a significant difference.
Lampi I have only heard briefly thanks to Ked which Ked is very happy with.
It will probably boil down to personal preference and I don't know to what extent aesthetics and build quality come into the equation. Leaving aside sound, I was more than put off by the looks of Ked's Lampi which to me was pretty industrial looking and big. I want equipment with very good sound, build quality and looks nice. The Lampi failed the last two tests for me, but obviously for you to decide.
Lampi I have only heard briefly thanks to Ked which Ked is very happy with.
It will probably boil down to personal preference and I don't know to what extent aesthetics and build quality come into the equation. Leaving aside sound, I was more than put off by the looks of Ked's Lampi which to me was pretty industrial looking and big. I want equipment with very good sound, build quality and looks nice. The Lampi failed the last two tests for me, but obviously for you to decide.
I don't think that was a proper demo as my Lampi was acting up (the recti not giving enough gain), and we could not plug in your CD player to my Lampi, or my noisy mac mini to your dac. I did manage to later listen to a puccini where I could connect it properly. That was the one I had one replacement when mine had gone for a DSD 256 upgrade.
Guessing you mean Rossini player and Clock or Vivaldi dac and clock? If so...depends on your sources and it's a tough call. The Rossini+Clock is a great solution for everything but physical SACD's. The network input is killer good vs USB and a computer. The Vivaldi will extract and present even more...but it requires more money...and more cables. If you think you'll add the Vivaldi Upsampler down the road...or the Vivaldi Trans...it's the ultimate. The Vivaldi dac does not have the network input like the Rossini (needs the Vivaldi Upsampler). I consider the Upsampler to be a source-while it does upsample..the network interface also means this is a source.
You'll be thrilled either way, but your question in the end is "purely to fidelity of playback" - it's hard to beat a Vivaldi.
I quite agree with you Mike in respect to how the pace of technological development of digital replay has increased in recent years, making for a difficult final destination solution answer, and in some respect makes an argument for the Sound per Pound Rossini at this time over Vivaldi!?!???!
I can quite understand the attraction of and the fun element of tube rolling, however for my part After decades of rolling in both DIY and Commercial equipment I rather like the idea of a known source with the option of a little filter rolling as compensation.
Hi Ked
I wasn't seeking to comment on the sound of your Lampi and as you say the circumstances were not ideal and therefore not conducive to any real view on the sound of it.
It was only a comment on the relative aesthetics!
My apologies J, Indeed it was, two many Vivaldi's and not enough Rossini's !, I am intrigued as to how close or otherwise would an Full Rossini be to an Vivaldi stage 1, that of Player and DAC?
In one regard the physical practicalities of the one and a bit boxes of the Rossini/Clock has some advantages given the relative lack of rack and elbow room in my current listening space, as would the large tho single box GG.
With regard to comparative aesthetics, whilst no stranger to equipment that would not get showroom time at the local Bentley dealership, particularly in my DIY days, I do understand were Barry is coming from, IMHO the materials used and finish of the current DCS gears is quite superb.
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For me #1 in importance is that the dac has to be on the network..USB seems limiting and technology that has run its course.
Right now I use a NADAC with HQPlayer and roon. The biggest draw back is that you cannot change sample rates and filters on the fly. Upsampling PCM to DSD is very good. And contrary to other reports, the NADAC is plug and play. I also use it as a preamp.
I have not compared the dCS dacs but I plan to. I'm waiting for them to be roon ready. The big upside I see with dCS is no need for HQPlayer and that you can change rates and filters on the fly.
The down side might be that they are slow with updates.
And of course sonics between the NADAC and dCS will be the ultimate determinator here.
As always YMMV
Right now I use a NADAC with HQPlayer and roon. The biggest draw back is that you cannot change sample rates and filters on the fly. Upsampling PCM to DSD is very good. And contrary to other reports, the NADAC is plug and play. I also use it as a preamp.
I have not compared the dCS dacs but I plan to. I'm waiting for them to be roon ready. The big upside I see with dCS is no need for HQPlayer and that you can change rates and filters on the fly.
The down side might be that they are slow with updates.
And of course sonics between the NADAC and dCS will be the ultimate determinator here.
As always YMMV
I don't see the tube rolling for the Lampizator as some sort of compensation. It more about voicing and ability to match your system, now and in the future. And even to what kind of music you are listening to.
I think the better question at this point is how to get a Lampizator to demo. Luckily there is a great distributor in GB. Hopefully he can arrange something.
There is quite a substantial difference between the old Big 7 (like Ked has) and a GG in terms of the looks department.
Hi Roger:
My advice would be to listen to both in your system if you can.
Pros for DCS:
> build quality
> resale value
> detail resolution
> noise floor (extremely low)
> back up through dealer network
> deep/potent bass
Pros for GG:
> modular unit for infinite upgrades at nominal prices as digital evolves
> DHT output stage - if you like what it does, nothing else will suffice
> Format coverage upto dsd 512 (extra cost)
> tuning with tubes to suit system, mood, genre,
> soundstage and addictive musicality
My advice would be to listen to both in your system if you can.
Pros for DCS:
> build quality
> resale value
> detail resolution
> noise floor (extremely low)
> back up through dealer network
> deep/potent bass
Pros for GG:
> modular unit for infinite upgrades at nominal prices as digital evolves
> DHT output stage - if you like what it does, nothing else will suffice
> Format coverage upto dsd 512 (extra cost)
> tuning with tubes to suit system, mood, genre,
> soundstage and addictive musicality
My guess, and it would take someone trying this with both dCS configurations to be sure:
-The Rossini player and clock equals and maybe beats the Vivaldi and Clock on redbook physical cd. The Rossini's built in up sampling + the physical transport tilts this to Rossini since via Vivaldi you're have to use some non dCS trans or ripping the cd and using USB.
-The Rossini player and clock is so close to call it a draw on downloads. The Rossini has the superior network interface vs the Vivaldi (dac only) + clock needs to use USB and a computer. The Vivaldi edges the other out...but not by much...plus the Rossini has upsamping for any non DSD file...
-The Vivaldi DAC+Clock beats the Rossini cleanly on DSD downloads...even via the USB interface.
-The Vivaldi+clock+upsampler beats all aspects of the Rossini-on all formats.
So that's my semi informed decision here after listening to Rossini and owning Vivaldi.
Good afternoon Bill,
Entirely my plan if I can swing it.
All excellent points highlighting the strengths inherent in both brands, and the swings and roundabouts of same.
A few thoughts If I may,
Pros for DCS:
> build quality. [ As Proverbial Tank ]
> resale value. [ Somewhat tempered by the high initial buy in, esp Vivaldi
> detail resolution. [ From my time thus far also Not at the expence of Harmonic content and musicality
> noise floor (extremely low)
> back up through dealer network [ Indeed, Huntingdon being quite close and convenient, Liam Is a Top Trooper
> deep/potent bass
Pros for GG:
> modular unit for infinite upgrades at nominal prices as digital evolves [ True,tho logistics to Poland and back aconsideration
> DHT output stage - if you like what it does, nothing else will suffice. [very fond of DHT, a little less so at source
> Format coverage upto dsd 512 (extra cost). [Most appealing tho DCS also enables higher sampling up To To 265 via firmware updates poss higher?!?
> tuning with tubes to suit system, mood, genre, [I refer the Honorable Gentleman to an answer I gave earlier [ To this house
> soundstage and addictive musicality. [I quite believe all who have made similar comment
I think you are leaning towards the DCS, in which case try to audition both and if you do, try to roll a couple on the Lampi. I think even if you want the balanced GG, demoing a SE GG (in case you don't get a balanced) will give you a flavor of whether you prefer it to the dcs or not. If not, fine, if yes, order the balanced one.
Sorry, but how would you have experience of DHT at the source? Thought Lampi (and probably Allnic) were the only two?
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