CJ Announces GAT Series 2

LL21

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I'm new here, but while searching around for info on GAT V2 I found What's Best!

My GAT is out for the update, I'm hoping it'll show up back home later this week! :D

Hi Rayooo,

Any update on your CJ GAT Series 2? Hope its going well. Myles Astor has posted very encouraging comments about his CJ GAT Series 2 upgrade recently!
 

LL21

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Quotation from Myles Astor on his recent CJ GAT Series 2 upgrade:
https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/...stages/5472-conrad-johnson-gat-series-2/page3

"06-29-2016, 10:55 PM

Couple of thoughts now that the GAT Series 2 probably has close to (or more) 200 hrs of playing under its belt (assuming that cj put 50 or so hours before returning the unit-that may be an underestimate).

First, I would unhesitatingly recommend to all GAT owners to spring for the update. You won't be disappointed. The improvement in sound is much more than what would be obtained by switching from 6922 to PC88s.

Two, the new GAT retains the neutrality and dynamics and dynamic swing that differentiated (and characterized) the unit from the earlier ART preamplifier and improves on it a touch. The new GAT Serieds 2 imparts just a little less of its character into the system highlighting even more the differences between recordings.

Three, there is greater resolution especially in the upper octaves. Percussion and its intricate rhythms are more easily heard and understood. It's as if they have appeared out of no where and you don't even have to concentrate on the playing to appreciate the rhythm.

Four, the preamp is stunningly quiet and transparent. To truly appreciate this, though, requires the best in software. In this case, second generation reel to reel tapes.

Lastly, the low end is markedly improved. It's, however, more than just greater low frequency extension (read lowest octave) and authority. No. It's a greater tighness in the midbass to upper bass area. This is most easily appreciated by putting on some of the early '59-60 Contemporary jazz recordings where prior to the Series 2, the upright bass could be a little plummy to boomy side. After the update, this area is much tighter though one can still hear DuNann feeling his way around in properly recording this instrument."
 

Big Dog RJ

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Yes correct! Spot on,
1. More resolution 2. tigther bass/more responsive bass flow 3. the nuances seem to come from no where, and this is highly apparent with stats.
The one and biggest issue I have being based in Aus, this upgrade would cost us down-unda folks close to 10 grand just for the upgrade, making the overall cost of a cj GATs2 to nearly 30 grand for a preamp! Is it just a preamp- no but then again for 30 grand, there is something that I would definitely purchase without even blinking an eye- the Kondo Overture integrated- you get both pre+power together and it costs exatly 30 grand in Aus.

You folks in those hills and country side orange fields in Cal of USA are dam lucky! You only have to pay for what the manufacturer exactly charges, here in Aus land we have to pay for the bloody shipping handling/ import duty/customs duty and then finally the dealers/distributors margin and then we arrive at a final price.

However, I must say those of you who do have GAT-standard versions, if you can afford it, go for the upgrade, as Myles said you won't be disappointed but for those of you who have other priorities for a 10 grand upgrade, I would just sit back and enjoy the standard GAT. After all a GAT is a GAT!
Cheers, and happy listening Myles.

Lloyd are you still thinking of upgrading to the S2 or have you decided on remaining with the standard version...
 

LL21

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Yes correct! Spot on,
1. More resolution 2. tigther bass/more responsive bass flow 3. the nuances seem to come from no where, and this is highly apparent with stats.
The one and biggest issue I have being based in Aus, this upgrade would cost us down-unda folks close to 10 grand just for the upgrade, making the overall cost of a cj GATs2 to nearly 30 grand for a preamp! Is it just a preamp- no but then again for 30 grand, there is something that I would definitely purchase without even blinking an eye- the Kondo Overture integrated- you get both pre+power together and it costs exatly 30 grand in Aus.

You folks in those hills and country side orange fields in Cal of USA are dam lucky! You only have to pay for what the manufacturer exactly charges, here in Aus land we have to pay for the bloody shipping handling/ import duty/customs duty and then finally the dealers/distributors margin and then we arrive at a final price.

However, I must say those of you who do have GAT-standard versions, if you can afford it, go for the upgrade, as Myles said you won't be disappointed but for those of you who have other priorities for a 10 grand upgrade, I would just sit back and enjoy the standard GAT. After all a GAT is a GAT!
Cheers, and happy listening Myles.

Lloyd are you still thinking of upgrading to the S2 or have you decided on remaining with the standard version...

Hi Big Dog,

I am pretty sure SOMEDAY i will do the upgrade. The good thing is CJ has been so steady, so reliable as a company, that i dont feel the need/rush to do it. And yes, it is expensive!!! So i think it is a 'definite someday'. Thanks for your comments...always interested to hear more from Down Under.

By the way, how does the Kondo Overture compare with the CJ GAT/CJ sound?
 

Big Dog RJ

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Hey mate, how's it going?
Yes I understand when you say someday, as it would be a definite upgrade to the series 2 but I could happily live with just the Gat and Artsa, one superb pre-power combination I have tried with the quads, simply marvelous.

The Kondo amps are a completely different league of its own. The materials used are probably the best and most expensive in the world to use in audio design. pure silver wire right throughout, plus some very exotic caps that I have never seen before. I wouldn't compare Kondo to cj simply because the price points are too far. top of the line Kondo monoblocks called the ongaku go for around 200 grand! This is even more than the Lamm's, and the Lamm's were one glorious amps that I liked very much. The Kondo entry level is their overture amp- EL34 push-pull ultralinear 32w/ch integrated but boy does it sound more like a 100 watter! it has multiple transformers something like 4, plus the materials used are superb. The workmanship is second to none and Australia doesn't have a service centre, if there's a problem you have to ship all the way over to Japan hq. The starting price is around 32 grand, there is a demo unit that I can get for around 20 grand and I was extremely tempted BUT I have to give thought first to the loveable wifey and daughter before just going after audio. This is something I have decided and not to just jump into things.

but my golly that Kondo is something else. The entire presentation and presence is so lifelike you can get up and touch each performer. right now, how I have listed my top 3 in amplification is as follows:
1. cj- Artsa and Gat s2 as overall best sound for value.
2. Lamm ml 2 or 3 series in terms of flexibility and the ability to drive even difficult loads. of course comes at a price but there are Lamm hybrids available to choose from a range of ss amplification that can drive difficult loads and sound equally impressive.
3. kondo- ongaku, kogaru or their entry level overture are remarkable! The price is definitely ridiculous but the sound & soundstage is nothing like I've heard before.

in terms of what I or normal people with families could afford to be sota, my first choice would no doubt be cj. Having said that, if only I had a few extra dollars- the kondo would be number one. frankly speaking, I don't think there is anything out there that comes close or could compare because kondo was not made to compete or compare, rather to be submerged in the very essence of music.
I only listened to the kondo amps with sf strads and the maxima, I can only imagine how they would sound through top of the line stats or magnepans or other top notch speakers like avant garde horns...
they are something remarkable and something you actually don't see all the time. The other thing is many get it confused over Audio note because at one point they were working together long time ago. AN se amps also looked the same but by far they sound nothing like a kondo design. as you say Lloyd someday is definitely "someday".
Cheers mate and take it easy.
rj
 

microstrip

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Just to inform that I have now tried and measured the Philips PCC88 in the conrad johnson GAT, just swapping tubes without any transformation.

The results are positive, the measured performance is really good, as shown in the attached spectra. Noise is better than the old tubes (Siemens ECC88) in the bass frequencies, but they had already passed the end of the recommendable life time.

Concerning the sound quality I am tempted to say it seems cleaner than before, but I need more time and surely a few tens of hours for tube burn-in before having an opinion on it.

As I have modified my 6H30 tester to measure the 6922/ECC88 I analyzed several used Sovtek 6922 that were giving problems - as I expected probably the main reason of short lifetime of these tubes is strong triode imbalance in the tube sections - an usual source of problems when the sections are operated in parallel.
 

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LL21

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Hi Micro,

Your post below is nearly a year old...where have you ended up with tubes in the CJ GAT? I can ee you are now ARC Ref Anniversary, but thought I would ask if you ended up making a final decision on the tubes for the GAT. Thanks!

Just to inform that I have now tried and measured the Philips PCC88 in the conrad johnson GAT, just swapping tubes without any transformation.

The results are positive, the measured performance is really good, as shown in the attached spectra. Noise is better than the old tubes (Siemens ECC88) in the bass frequencies, but they had already passed the end of the recommendable life time.

Concerning the sound quality I am tempted to say it seems cleaner than before, but I need more time and surely a few tens of hours for tube burn-in before having an opinion on it.

As I have modified my 6H30 tester to measure the 6922/ECC88 I analyzed several used Sovtek 6922 that were giving problems - as I expected probably the main reason of short lifetime of these tubes is strong triode imbalance in the tube sections - an usual source of problems when the sections are operated in parallel.
 

microstrip

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Hi Micro,

Your post below is nearly a year old...where have you ended up with tubes in the CJ GAT? I can ee you are now ARC Ref Anniversary, but thought I would ask if you ended up making a final decision on the tubes for the GAT. Thanks!

The CJ's are still at home, most of the time they were used with selected and matched Philips EI PCC88's.
 

LL21

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LL21

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Well...at first blush, I think the new CJ GAT 2 is more resolute, more resolved. It is very early days (hours actually), but its immediate difference in the first hour is that it is a more disciplined beast. It is not that the CJ GAT Series 1 was sloppy by any stretch, but by comparison, you can hear where details, nuances are very clearly placed, positioned and neatly presented in a very easy way. The GAT 1 would present the 'sense of these details' in comparison.

...more to come.
 

microstrip

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Well...at first blush, I think the new CJ GAT 2 is more resolute, more resolved. It is very early days (hours actually), but its immediate difference in the first hour is that it is a more disciplined beast. It is not that the CJ GAT Series 1 was sloppy by any stretch, but by comparison, you can hear where details, nuances are very clearly placed, positioned and neatly presented in a very easy way. The GAT 1 would present the 'sense of these details' in comparison.

...more to come.

Congratulations Lloyd! I am waiting for your comments. But I imagine the GAT2 must go through the 200 hours burn-in ...
 

LL21

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Congratulations Lloyd! I am waiting for your comments. But I imagine the GAT2 must go through the 200 hours burn-in ...

Thank you! I spoke with many owners and reviewers off-line who all kindly gave of their time and energy to provide comments, commentary. A great family of owners in CJ. I will go and thank each of them later this evening.

Meanwhile, yes, I will continue to provide periodic comments, but will do a proper burn-in/settle in before providing fuller comments.
 

Big Dog RJ

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LL21, G'day Lloyd so you finally made the move!

Excellent! do let us know your thoughts and what you discover along the way... give it sometime to settle in. Teflon and high quality parts takes a while to settle in, and after around the first few weeks you will begin to notice the subtle changes. After about a month or so, these changes will become even more apparent otherwise at first sessions, it is somewhat hard to justify the price increase of such upgrades.

Excellent decision, one that will last a life time mate. This is basically the the original ART pre at its best.
Cheers and have a good one,
RJ
 

bonzo75

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Congrats Lloyd
 

XCop5089

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Congratulations!

Having owned my CJ GAT Series 2 for just over a year now, it does improve a lot after thoroughly bedding in!

I cannot comment as to the comparison with the original GAT as I have only experienced one in Series 2 guise.
 

XV-1

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Well done Lloyd. The best gets a little better. Gotta upgrade mine one day :eek:
 

LL21

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Thanks, Big Dog, XV1, Bonzo and Xcop5089! Enjoying 'live music' in the house once again...as opposed to headphones. And yes, Shane - please join the party when you can. GAT 2 is shaping up very nicely.
 

LL21

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Hi Guys,

So 76 hours in...some fellow owners have said a substantial proportion of the sound should now be revealed. (We shall see, as others have said 150 hours is a big change).

The best way I can compare Series 1 and Series 2 is based on an analogy to what is called 'fingering' when studying piano:

(Fingering which refers to the technique and placement of fingers on the keyboard when playing. Fingering technique informs various things like your ability to play all the notes clearly without muddling them inadvertently. Sometimes younger, more inexperienced pianists play more complex pieces, and certain notes get smooshed together because the young pianist does not have the fingering technique/strength/articulation of fingering to play the notes at speed one at a time or with sufficient articulation between notes...and the notes end up being played on top of each other instead.)

- The Series 2 has significantly better fingering technique than the Series 1. Probably the difference between a 9th grader playing a piece, vs a freshman in college.
- Much better articulation of musical lines, deeper carving of musical expression
- A good example is on a Fink live concert album, there is one line where in addition to the lead singer, one of the other artists sings along with him for 5 words. i have heard this track hundred times and never noticed that...and literally while just typing this and not paying attention, there it was...the 2nd singer for 5 words...clear as day. Perhaps its easily heard (when listening for it) on Series 1...but all i can say is...i've literally never noticed it
- Clapping in the background seems more rooted in reality
- More sure-footed mid and upper bass...much more articulate (by far), stronger, deeper with a better balance that matches the treble...see below
- Treble articulation is also much, much better. Suddenly, the treble takes on its own expression alongside the ever-magical mids...where before they were beautiful but perhaps playing 2nd fiddle
- Upper bass also did always have an ever-so-slight lack of ultimate clarity/precise attack that I noted but eventually made peace with because it was very subtle.
- At the moment, the lower bass is more articulate as well, but I am waiting for final judgment here about its ultimate weight. I suspect time may have something to say about this as in my own limited experience i have found ultimate bass weight sometimes comes last in the burn in.

more to come...
 
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microstrip

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Hi Guys,

So 76 hours in...some fellow owners have said a substantial proportion of the sound should now be revealed. (We shall see, as others have said 150 hours is a big change). (...)

Does the bass keep the full bodied and enveloping characteristic? Although the old GAT does not have the best bass articulation and detail it is really enjoyable, particularly as is sounds "rhythmic".

BTW, the Opus tuning for the GAT2 is the same of the GAT?
 

LL21

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LL21, G'day Lloyd so you finally made the move!

Excellent! do let us know your thoughts and what you discover along the way... give it sometime to settle in. Teflon and high quality parts takes a while to settle in, and after around the first few weeks you will begin to notice the subtle changes. After about a month or so, these changes will become even more apparent otherwise at first sessions, it is somewhat hard to justify the price increase of such upgrades.

Excellent decision, one that will last a life time mate. This is basically the the original ART pre at its best.
Cheers and have a good one,
RJ

I have heard from more than one person who, despite finding the GAT superior to the ART (3) in many, many technical ways, still found a superior 'connection' to music via the ART 3...something about the way it portrays tonal colors. Not right, not wrong...just an opinion. I wonder if perhaps now those who have said this would feel differently about the GAT Series 2 which by all accounts produces far more vibrant colors than the GAT Series 1 as well. I think this bit also fleshes out as the settle-in of Teflon continues. We shall see.
 

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