Apple vs The Feds!!

Apple should prevail or Feds should prevail

  • Apple is correct and their Security/Privacy argument should prevail

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • The greater good of the security to the US population has to overcome the private privacy argument

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Neither are correct..a third option needs to be sought.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
Since there is a great deal of squabbling going on right now on WBF, I thought we should discuss another squabble...:eek:

This one is the very interesting case wherein the FBI won a decision to force the Apple computer company to unlock one of their iPhones. The iPhone in question belonged to a terrorist and murderer who killed several people in a shooting spree recently.
The FBI argues that by getting Apple to supply the necessary software to 'bypass' the lock-out feature of the phone ( apparently after ten(10) attempts at the unlock code, the phone will shut down and essentially render all information contained within as unreadable) they will be possibly preventing future attacks. The FBI wants Apple to write new software that will essentially allow this feature to be taken off-line and therefore they can input as many attempts as is necessary to open the phone. The FBI suspects that there may be information on the terrorists phone that would implicate additional conspirators! Apple is refusing to do so, citing a break in their privacy and the possibility that the government would then be able to inspect anyone's phone basically at anytime and place...with a simple court order.

This argument for Apple has IMO a lot of merit...

But, the federal government argument might make some sense as well...perhaps??:confused::confused:

Your thoughts..
 
Last edited:

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
Apple should tell the FBI, the government and all other agencies to buzz off.

I value the privacy and informational security for the people more than the safety of the few. The FBI can get their intelligence some other way. There is no way that after this software is used once, it won't be used again because this will set a precedent. THE FEDS LIE. I don't trust the police and FBI as far as I can throw them.

There is a double standard with the police. They can lie to you to get information, but you cannot lie to them.

Bad things sometimes happen. It's too bad.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
1,198
580
Boston, MA
As Cook said in his ABC interview, some things are tough [not to crack the phone and potentially save lives], some things are right [their right to refuse], and this is both.
 

Joe Whip

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,740
563
405
Wayne, PA
There has to be a third option which is why I voted the way I did. No right is absolute under the Constitution. The old adage of yelling fire in a crowded theater comes to mind. There must be a way for a narrowly tailored search warrant to be drafted to satisfy both concerns. Frankly, I have issues with the absolute positions taken on both sides. If I am not mistaken,the phone in issue was owned by California. If so, they can simply waive their right to privacy in this matter. In any event, you don't want to get Congress involved. They can simply pass a law banning any phone or device containing this type of encryption from being sold in the US. Remember, the right of privacy is a right implied in the Constitution. I can easy see enough justices deciding that the right of the government here trumps the right of privacy and holding such a law constitutional. A word to the wise, be careful. BTW, I am licensed to practice before SCOTUS.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
There is an implicit issue here that Apple does not want to talk about namely them having to do this but not Android. This could easily turn into "buy Android because Apple helps FBI hack your iphone." This is why they are in favor of new legislation that would apply to every tech/phone company. But not just to them.

It is a fair concern for them from business point of view as the financial impact can be sudden and deep.

Of course the feds will go after Android camp too in the future but that won't help Apple here and now.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,567
1,790
1,850
Metro DC
IMO Apple is subject to compulsory process under the constitution. There is no need to give FBI the code. Apple deciphers the info and turns it over.That is just in general. Let's not even discuss the Patriot Act.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
Apple can't do that in that manner. The password is the key that encrypts the content. Apple wrote the encryption software. Without the key, they have no way to decrypt the content.

FBI knows this so what they are asking them to do is allow them to use brute force to keep guessing the pass code until the phone unlocks. iPHone as with other modern operating systems has measures against it by making it slower and slower to respond to bad password in addition to wiping the phone after 10 tries. FBI wants this disabled.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,567
1,790
1,850
Metro DC
Compulsory process is only for information in your possession.
 

zztop7

Member Sponsor
Dec 12, 2012
750
3
0
Edmonds, WA
Where did common sense go

If someone steals your car, you lose the value of your car [or the insurance co. loses]. BUT, if you fill your trunk with a few $100,000.00, you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
If someone steals your wallet, you lose the value of the cash in it & the time to cancel credit cards. BUT, if you fill your wallet with $10,000.00 & account #s & passwords, you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
If someone steals your phone, you lose the value of the phone. BUT, if you fill your phone with account #s, passwords, other sensitive information you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
Where did common sense go; it is all one monster FUBAR.
Why should any company be responsible for people carrying around their life, and why should innocents suffer for it.
zz.
 

scouter

Member Sponsor
Oct 30, 2012
241
4
0
Wrightsville Beach, NC
So where are you going to put that info? In your "safe" in your house, and expect it to be secure? Or I guess I could put it in my noggin, but to be honest, I don't think I could remember all my passwords. OR, as an honest, law abiding citizen, I could purchase an Apple IPhone that I feel reasonably secure about putting info on, and know that if someone steals it, I've got a chance of keeping my $2.00 in my bank account secure so I can call home to my aging parents and ask if Ican stay with them.
If someone steals your car, you lose the value of your car [or the insurance co. loses]. BUT, if you fill your trunk with a few $100,000.00, you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
If someone steals your wallet, you lose the value of the cash in it & the time to cancel credit cards. BUT, if you fill your wallet with $10,000.00 & account #s & passwords, you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
If someone steals your phone, you lose the value of the phone. BUT, if you fill your phone with account #s, passwords, other sensitive information you lose that; Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
Where did common sense go; it is all one monster FUBAR.
Why should any company be responsible for people carrying around their life, and why should innocents suffer for it.
zz.
 

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