45 RPM reissues- Are they better than high-res downloads?

Gregadd · Feb 25, 2016

Has anyone done any comparisons? I know of a guy who will not acquire anything else. Some are pricy with limited musical content. They do however minimize crosstalk and inner grove distortion.
I have limited experience. They were quite good. We talk a lot about best digital versus best vinyl. There does not appear to be a clear idea of what that is.

Asamel · Feb 25, 2016

Here we go. If you like the sound of vinyl that is best, if you prefer digital then... There are also those who don't believe that 45 RPM LPs are better than 33s. I suggest that you buy quality pressings and downloads whenever possible.

Of course I prefer tape when available.

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 25, 2016

I cannot comment on hi-res as I don't partake in downloads, but I do believe that 45rpm is better than 33rpm in most cases. I didn't really think that Fleetwood Mac - Rumours was a great example of 45rpm being better than anything else out there. Regardless of format one will get hits & misses.

MadFloyd · Feb 25, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
I cannot comment on hi-res as I don't partake in downloads, but I do believe that 45rpm is better than 33rpm in most cases. I didn't really think that Fleetwood Mac - Rumours was a great example of 45rpm being better than anything else out there. Regardless of format one will get hits & misses.

No question in mind that in a high end system, vinyl is superior, even 33 RPM. Only situation where it isn't is if the turntable or phono stage is entry level vs a very high end DAC or where the mastering on the digital is superior to the mastering of the vinyl.

That said, it takes a substantial investment to get a good vinyl playback system - much more than digital (or at least that's been my experience).

Asamel · Feb 25, 2016

Actually the opinion that 45 isn't necessarily better sounding came at a demonstration of the Kronos turntable.

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 25, 2016

Asamel said:
Actually the opinion that 45 isn't necessarily better sounding came at a demonstration of the Kronos turntable.

What was being played, if I can ask?

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2016

Gregadd said:
Has anyone done any comparisons? I know of a guy who will not acquire anything else. Some are pricy with limited musical content. They do however minimize crosstalk and inner grove distortion.
I have limited experience. They were quite good. We talk a lot about best digital versus best vinyl. There does not appear to be a clear idea of what that is.

I've done thousands of comparisons. I do it every day for 15 years.

game , set, match to the 45 vinyl when it is analog based. and it's not even close.

if the high rez digital is the native format of the recording and you have good enough digital then the answer could be anywhere on the scale. it will depand.

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
I cannot comment on hi-res as I don't partake in downloads, but I do believe that 45rpm is better than 33rpm in most cases. I didn't really think that Fleetwood Mac - Rumours was a great example of 45rpm being better than anything else out there. Regardless of format one will get hits & misses.

Rumours was a case where the original pressing of the 33 RPM was much better than the 45's. and the 15ips 1/4" tape is better than the 33 original pressing.

downloads of Rumours are ok; somewhat close and different than the 45. the 33 OP kills the download.

the underlying issue is that the best vinyl version of an analog recording is best. occasionally that is not the 45.

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 25, 2016

Mike Lavigne said:
Rumours was a case where the original pressing of the 33 RPM was much better than the 45's. and the 15ips 1/4" tape is better than the 33 original pressing.

downloads of Rumours are ok; somewhat close and different than the 45. the 33 OP kills the download.

the underlying issue is that the best vinyl version of an analog recording is best. occasionally that is not the 45.

Like d/l's I don't have tape to compare, but otherwise I agree with your assessment.

Blizzard · Feb 25, 2016

MadFloyd said:
No question in mind that in a high end system, vinyl is superior, even 33 RPM. Only situation where it isn't is if the turntable or phono stage is entry level vs a very high end DAC or where the mastering on the digital is superior to the mastering of the vinyl.

That said, it takes a substantial investment to get a good vinyl playback system - much more than digital (or at least that's been my experience).

You should hit Bruce up for some quad DSD vinyl rips and see how they compare with digital downloads of the same album.

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2016

Blizzard said:
You should hit Bruce up for some quad DSD vinyl rips and see how they compare with digital downloads of the same album.

it still comes back to the native format.

hirez downloads in the native format of a digital recording can sound and likely do sound superior to a vinyl rip in 2xdsd or quad dsd.

hirez downloads of analog tape sourced recordings will generally sound better in vinyl; and the vinyl rips many times are better too whether 2xdsd or quad dsd.

you cannot just generalize about how this stuff goes without qualifying by the recording native format.

and if you are using moderate level gear to play it back then all expectations are adjusted by that variable.

PeterA · Feb 25, 2016

Blizzard said:
You should hit Bruce up for some quad DSD vinyl rips and see how they compare with digital downloads of the same album.

Blizzard, that suggestion might be interesting, but it would answer a different question and it is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is not about vinyl rips, it is about 45 LPs and hi rez downloads. The consensus so far seems to be that vinyl is "better", it is unclear if that means that it is preferred by the listener, or if it sounds more real, or if it is more transparent to the original recording.

Greg, what do you mean by "better"?

The other interesting issue is this: are you really asking about the recording or the playback chain sounding better, or are you implying that it is by necessity, the combination of the two?

Mike Lavigne · Feb 25, 2016

PeterA said:
Blizzard, that suggestion might be interesting, but it would answer a different question and it is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is not about vinyl rips, it is about 45 LPs and hi rez downloads. The consensus so far seems to be that vinyl is "better", it is unclear if that means that it is preferred by the listener, or if it sounds more real, or if it is more transparent to the original recording.

Greg, what do you mean by "better"?

The other interesting issue is this: are you really asking about the recording or the playback chain sounding better, or are you implying that it is by necessity, the combination of the two?

my experience with 2xdsd transfers verses quad transfers is that the difference is not significant enough to justify the bandwidth difference. you cannot reliably tell the difference. so therefore vinyl rips make more sense for 2xdsd than quad.

OTOH native 2xdsd is easily heard to be not quite on the same level as native quad recordings. the difference are still not dramatic but they are easily heard and have musical consequences. it's not just difference for difference's sake.

Gregadd · Feb 25, 2016

Bluenote 45 rpm

http://store.acousticsounds.com/s/101/Blue_Note_45_RPM_-_Analogue_Productions_Reissues

Gregadd · Feb 25, 2016

five 45 rpm reissues you must own

http://thehighfidelityreport.com/five-must-have-45rpm-reissues-from-analogue-productions/

tank64 · Feb 25, 2016

I own about 30 LP's in 45rpm. It takes time and careful system matching to get things right, but I prefer the vinyl sound to any Hi Rez digital that I have heard.
A expensive road, but a worthy one.

Gregadd · Feb 25, 2016

PeterA said:
***

Greg, what do you mean by "better"?

The other interesting issue is this: are you really asking about the recording or the playback chain sounding better, or are you implying that it is by necessity, the combination of the two?

If I were a tree what kind of tree would I be?

i'm all about the result being pragmatist. My reference is real music in real space. I know of now way to listen to digital files or vinyl records without the associated equipment. By better I mean which one sounds most like real music.

DaveyF · Feb 25, 2016

MadFloyd said:
No question in mind that in a high end system, vinyl is superior, even 33 RPM. Only situation where it isn't is if the turntable or phono stage is entry level vs a very high end DAC or where the mastering on the digital is superior to the mastering of the vinyl.

That said, it takes a substantial investment to get a good vinyl playback system - much more than digital (or at least that's been my experience).

+1

I think that a great 45rpm LP is most times going to sound better than the same LP in the 33rpm format.OTOH, I own a few Music Matters LP's that are very slightly superior sounding in their 33rpm versions. As a rule though, the 45rpm is going to have the higher SQ. As to high-res downloads...what are they, LOL.

Asamel · Feb 25, 2016

It wasn't a specific recording. I think we were about to play a 45 LP when he made a comment about SQ. it was kind of general about trade offs and such.

Blizzard · Feb 25, 2016

Mike Lavigne said:
it still comes back to the native format.

hirez downloads in the native format of a digital recording can sound and likely do sound superior to a vinyl rip in 2xdsd or quad dsd.

hirez downloads of analog tape sourced recordings will generally sound better in vinyl; and the vinyl rips many times are better too whether 2xdsd or quad dsd.

you cannot just generalize about how this stuff goes without qualifying by the recording native format.

and if you are using moderate level gear to play it back then all expectations are adjusted by that variable.

What it will show is if the vinyl coloration's of Bruce's rig are subjectively preferred over the master tape sourced digital copy.

45 RPM reissues- Are they better than high-res downloads?

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