Placebo effects in the extreme

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spazmatron

Banned
Dec 4, 2015
190
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Somerset, uk
Oh that King. I think I am much prettier as I am sure you and everyone else will agree.

i can see why you fell out with peter, he clearly does not posses a logical mind. after all in a male dominated hobby if you ban all wankers.. well he would not even be left talking to himself!

You all got my 70s tv ref... jolly good! roll on, allo allo and hi-de-hi.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,443
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London
I thought this thread had been shut down.

That's the power of the mind. The thread is actually open. Proves the power of placebo. Not
 

Andrew Stenhouse

New Member
Feb 14, 2016
171
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Sydney, Australia
Just a quick note. I have been getting a few PMs from people thinking something drastically gone wrong with the forum. That is not exactly the case. What you saw unfolding in front of you has been going on for months.......You should not be subject to such divided management. But you are and have been great contributors to the success of the forum. Regardless of which camp you are in, let me say how much I appreciate you contributing to each other and our community here.

Best regards,
The King of Audio

Perhaps, King of Audio (I can't believe you call yourself that btw - even in jest), you would do well not to air your dirty laundry in public.

How about we have two forums? - one for the ones whose hobby is looking at graphs and making predications based on how smart they think they are, and arguing with each other to prove same, and another for the rest of us whose hobby is listening to actual music and sharing our experiences with that. I promise not to post in yours if you promise not to post in mine....;)

God imagine that - a forum free of graphs? Hellehuyah.
 

GaryProtein

VIP/Donor
Jul 25, 2012
2,542
31
385
NY
It's very disheartening to see this polite, but angry fighting going on in the forum or even know that it is going on in the background.

The fact is the objectivists and subjectivists NEED each other. As Nietzsche said, "love your enemies for they tell you your faults."

If there were only subjectivists, we would have only vacuum tube low fidelity crap that was perceived as melodious with 50% even order "pleasant" distortion.

With only objectivists, we would have only solid state devices with 0.0001% "harsh, horrible sounding" odd order distortion like in the 1960's.

(I know, I exaggerated a little :p on the numbers.)

You guys need each other to keep the sound melodious and the fidelity high. It's the disagreements that helped make high fidelity what it is today. If everyone agreed that everything was terrific, we would never have improvements.
 

Jinjuku

New Member
Apr 18, 2011
228
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0
I'm still waiting (after 28 years since getting into this hobby) any peer reviewed, scientifically rigorous, papers that exclude the ears and the ear/brain connection as it pertains to audible differences from the various standards of biased controlled testing that is used in every branch of science that I know of.

I would like one non-conjecture link.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Perhaps, King of Audio (I can't believe you call yourself that btw - even in jest), you would do well not to air your dirty laundry in public.
I can't help it. It is my given name: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=amir

"Amir

Means prince, king, leader...
Loves to get crunk, has good sence of style, a pimp, all girls want him all guys want to be him, hardcore gangsta that will kick your ass....
1. Hes such an Amir...


I am sexy and I know it....
 

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
1,709
406
405
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. I am an engineer and have worked on both hardware, and currently software. I firmly believe in measurements. It is impossible to build an electronic device without measurements.

However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.

Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.
 

esldude

New Member
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. I am an engineer and have worked on both hardware, and currently software. I firmly believe in measurements. It is impossible to build an electronic device without measurements.

However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.

Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.
May I ask what you engineer? I may wish to avoid those hard minded and easy of hearing.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. I am an engineer and have worked on both hardware, and currently software. I firmly believe in measurements. It is impossible to build an electronic device without measurements.

However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.

Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.

And bring us back what we lost, and what they stole from us...our youth. :b ...And all that jazz they thought wasn't good enough for their own ears.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. <snip>
Hello, BlueFox and good evening to your sir. I just so happen to agree. The two IMO should compliment them self and be a learning tool for all that are interested in any given subject when it comes to our hobby.

The "camps" on this forum are not necessary IMO but they have been brought forth, agitated and seemingly separated by a few on this forum. This is a shame IMO as I personally have been on many forums where the subjectivists and objectivists are one and there is no fighting, arguments or otherwise disrespect toward one stance or another. Sure, some folks request measurements but every other thread isn't derailed by off topic comments and rude posts demanding proof from one side or the other on a seemingly unending basis.

This is where I believe a major part of this forums recent downturn (heated discussions that violate the TOS) stems from. Someone important here fuels the fire, the followers chime in with support and the end result is the factions that should have never happened to begin with. This is said with the utmost respect to all. These are the thoughts I will share tonight.

Tom
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Went to use the restroom in the grocery store today. I walked in and noticed they had taken all the urinals out and put in more closed in toilets. No problem. Go in one, raise the lid, do my business. Come out and wash my hands. Then try to get all the loose hairs out of my hair as I had just had a hair cut. As I am looking at the mirror doing that, I see something no man should see in a restroom: a woman washing her hands! Then the truth dawned on me. I was in ladies room! The lady though, was 100% cool and did not even blink at the sign of a male in that restroom. Breathed a sigh of relief and ran out as fast as I could.

Me thinks if that lady could tolerate me in that situation, we should easily be able to do that among ourselves in this forum with mixed backgrounds...
 

Jinjuku

New Member
Apr 18, 2011
228
4
0
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. I am an engineer and have worked on both hardware, and currently software. I firmly believe in measurements. It is impossible to build an electronic device without measurements.

However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.

Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.

I believe your ears too Blue. Just not when used in conjunction with your eyes.
 

Andrew Stenhouse

New Member
Feb 14, 2016
171
1
0
Sydney, Australia
I can't help it. It is my given name

Ah..is that where it all stems from Amir. I see.

So how about it mate - split the forum into two? - one forum for you plot loving blokes and another for the rest of us. You can have the free market run yours - your famous "if you don't like it don't read it" ethos and moderate as you see (or don't see) fit and appoint whoever you like to the role. Heck you could even have Blizz. back proclaiming the superiority of Quad DSD 256 via HQP at every turn. Hell appoint him and spazmatron moderators, or even better DaveC. Ban whoever you want. If I set foot in the place you can ban me instantly from it.

The other forum could be run by the other co founder as he sees fit - with his own moderators, where folk of like mind can happily post away about what they have heard, what they haven't and what they would like to. And again he can ban however he wants.

And the two of you agree to stay on your respective sides of the fence.

I think that is a great idea.

For my part Rodney I can very happily live without objectivists. Frankly I couldn't care less how something does or does not measure, or what it should in theory do or not do. All I'm really interested in is how it sounds to me, and others with similar experiences and interests.

Imagine a WBF free of the constant bickering and conflict that is the normal now. Hellejulah indeed.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Went to use the restroom in the grocery store today. I walked in and noticed they had taken all the urinals out and put in more closed in toilets. No problem. Go in one, raise the lid, do my business. Come out and wash my hands. Then try to get all the loose hairs out of my hair as I had just had a hair cut. As I am looking at the mirror doing that, I see something no man should see in a restroom: a woman washing her hands! Then the truth dawned on me. I was in ladies room! The lady though, was 100% cool and did not even blink at the sign of a male in that restroom. Breathed a sigh of relief and ran out as fast as I could.

Me thinks if that lady could tolerate me in that situation, we should easily be able to do that among ourselves in this forum with mixed backgrounds...

Goes to show there are times when eyes aren't such a bad thing to use eh?
 
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