Mysterious damage to LPs

Cascais · Feb 20, 2016

For the past year I have been using an SME 20/3 TT with the Series V arm and a Lyra Skala cartridge.

Lately I've noticed damage to 3 or 4 new LPs unlike anything seen before, very localized groove damage from <a half inch to about 2 inches, the rest of the disk being pristine. The groove looks as if scored by a tiny chisel. The sound is a brief, "zip" noise lasting up to 4 or 5 passes, after which the record plays normally.

My first thought was cartridge trouble, but the Skala tracks perfectly and silently, and the damage is localized to one spot on the disk. Therefore I don't blame the cartridge but don't want to risk further harm to my record collection either.

I suspect that the groove damage on these new LPs might be a flaw from the manufacturing process but seek some advice.

Ronm1 · Feb 20, 2016

Cascais said:
For the past year I have been using an SME 20/3 TT with the Series V arm and a Lyra Skala cartridge.

Lately I've noticed damage to 3 or 4 new LPs unlike anything seen before, very localized groove damage from <a half inch to about 2 inches, the rest of the disk being pristine. The groove looks as if scored by a tiny chisel. The sound is a brief, "zip" noise lasting up to 4 or 5 passes, after which the record plays normally.

My first thought was cartridge trouble, but the Skala tracks perfectly and silently, and the damage is localized to one spot on the disk. Therefore I don't blame the cartridge but don't want to risk further harm to my record collection either.

I suspect that the groove damage on these new LPs might be a flaw from the manufacturing process but seek some advice.

You call them new lp's but you have previously played them with no issues noticed? Same area of platter? Same label?

Gregadd · Feb 20, 2016

Probbaly due to mistracking due to improper VTF or alignment. Timited area of damage would suggest misalignment. Of course to damge your record it would have to be severely misaligned.

Just my guess.

Ronm1 · Feb 20, 2016

^^^. I find it hard to believe that such severe mistracking would not be noticed while playing the platters.

Gregadd · Feb 20, 2016

True.OTOH prexisting damage should have been audible on the first play also.

Cascais · Feb 20, 2016

Ronm1 said:
You call them new lp's but you have previously played them with no issues noticed? Same area of platter? Same label?

Thanks for your response. The LPs with the worst damage were played once before I noticed the damage. Since the noise is localized and lasts only seconds I might have missed it first time around. The affected areas on the disk are different as are the labels, WaxTime and DOL (European reissue labels which usually do an excellent job on 180 gm vinyl).

The reason for concern is the remote possibility that the cartridge is the culprit but it shows none of the usual signs of a worn stylus, e.g. distortion, surface noise, mis-tracking, etc., has had moderate use and never roughly handled. A faulty stylus would damage the whole surface of the record, not just one spot.

Gregadd · Feb 20, 2016

I would suggest having the stylus tip examined,

MadFloyd · Feb 20, 2016

Cascais said:
Thanks for your response. The LPs with the worst damage were played once before I noticed the damage. Since the noise is localized and lasts only seconds I might have missed it first time around. The affected areas on the disk are different as are the labels, WaxTime and DOL (European reissue labels which usually do an excellent job on 180 gm vinyl).

The reason for concern is the remote possibility that the cartridge is the culprit but it shows none of the usual signs of a worn stylus, e.g. distortion, surface noise, mis-tracking, etc., has had moderate use and never roughly handled. A faulty stylus would damage the whole surface of the record, not just one spot.

I notice the same sort of thing on almost all Speakers Corners LPs and they are pressed in Germany somewhere.

It's a real shame because I love their catalog and mastering.

Cascais · Feb 20, 2016

MadFloyd said:
I notice the same sort of thing on almost all Speakers Corners LPs and they are pressed in Germany somewhere.

It's a real shame because I love their catalog and mastering.

WaxTime is based in Spain and DOL is I think a subsidiary of a Russian company. Between them they have the rights to classic jazz titles from the 1950s and 1960s. In the past few days there have been no further problems with playback so will assume that the issue is with the manufacturing process. If there is a repeat, the stylus will have to be checked.

DaveyF · Feb 20, 2016

Highly probable that it is a faulty pressing. Amazingly, I have seen several faulty pressings from reissue companies in the past few years. None of the labels seem immune to this issue! I have received faulty Music Matters Lp's, MFSL's and AP's! However, usually if you look carefully at the disc prior to play, you can see some perceptible damage. Luckily, I have been able to replace all of these LP's. Manufacturing defects in vinyl should be a thing of the past...unfortunately IME, it is not.

Cascais · Feb 20, 2016

DaveyF said:
Highly probable that it is a faulty pressing. Amazingly, I have seen several faulty pressings from reissue companies in the past few years. None of the labels seem immune to this issue! I have received faulty Music Matters Lp's, MFSL's and AP's! However, usually if you look carefully at the disc prior to play, you can see some perceptible damage. Luckily, I have been able to replace all of these LP's. Manufacturing defects in vinyl should be a thing of the past...unfortunately IME, it is not.

I'm going to return one of these disks where the groove damage is pretty apparent to see if it can be replaced. It is Sonny Rollins, The Bridge, an excellent LP in every way. They know me at the store so that might help. It is amazing that the quality is as good as it is since there is a shortage of LP pressing machines and they are old. I don't think that the vinyl "boom" has reached the stage where new machines are being produced.

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 20, 2016

Cascais said:
I'm going to return one of these disks where the groove damage is pretty apparent to see if it can be replaced. It is Sonny Rollins, The Bridge, an excellent LP in every way. They know me at the store so that might help. It is amazing that the quality is as good as it is since there is a shortage of LP pressing machines and they are old. I don't think that the vinyl "boom" has reached the stage where new machines are being produced.

Actually there is a company in Toronto doing exactly that.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/stop-presses-new-presses-coming#skrxSAl5Wb2pc61w.97

Cascais · Feb 20, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
Actually there is a company in Toronto doing exactly that.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/stop-presses-new-presses-coming#skrxSAl5Wb2pc61w.97

Good to know, news hot off the press, so to speak. I've bought many of these European pressings in Portugal and wondering if the DOL and WaxTime jazz labels are available in North America?

Johnny Vinyl · Feb 20, 2016

Cascais said:
Good to know, news hot off the press, so to speak. I've bought many of these European pressings in Portugal and wondering if the DOL and WaxTime jazz labels are available in North America?

I don't own any titles from those two labels, but I've heard of them. Not sure if there is NA distribution of them, but surely they are easily ordered from overseas.

Don Hills · Feb 20, 2016

It's hard to tell without hearing it or a photo. It might be a pressing defect... try Googling "non fill vinyl".

Cascais · Feb 21, 2016

Don Hills said:
It's hard to tell without hearing it or a photo. It might be a pressing defect... try Googling "non fill vinyl".

I think that Don Hills has identified the problem as "non-fill vinyl since the "ripping sound" described could be the zipping sound that I hear. I attach a couple of photos to illustrate the problem on two records, and BTW I apologize for the dust since I didn't clean it for photography. The damage show up as grey streaks following the grooves.

Gregadd · Feb 21, 2016

Good job Don. A refund or exchange is definitely in order.

Cascais · Feb 21, 2016

Gregadd said:
Good job Don. A refund or exchange is definitely in order.

Second the motion. All credit to Don Hills and thanks to you all for your help. While I regret the damage to individual LPs (and I shall ask for replacement) my big concern was that the cartridge was to blame which seems not to be the case. These postings have been invaluable to me and we all have learned something. Thanks again.

RayDunzl · Feb 21, 2016

Fremer's explanation of non-fill

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/what-non-fill-looks

I'm having a hard time imagining what in a pressing scenario would make a skid mark like shown earlier.

---

On the other hand, here is one that does fit the pattern:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/99/998924.html

DaveyF · Feb 21, 2016

Like i said earlier, it is most likely a manufacturing defect. However, looking at your photo something else also occurred to me. If you rotate a record in its inner sleeve, and that record is not clean or the inside of the inner sleeve is also contaminated, then it is very possible to cause the damage to the groove that I see. Many of the current inner sleeves, particularly the one's that are coming on some of the new re-issues are made from some kind of plastic. They're not made from rice paper or the like...as are the excellent MFSL inner sleeves. I make it a point to NOT store my new LP's in the harder plastic sleeves...or for that matter in any other sleeves like the old paper ones from the day ( only in the MFSL inner sleeves). Plus, I also make sure that the inner sleeves are clean on the interior. VERY important to also clean the LP before putting it into any inner sleeve.
I'm not saying you have stored your LP's incorrectly, but it is always best to replace those inferior inner sleeves with something that can do no harm. IMHO.

Mysterious damage to LPs

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