Visit to Gryphon Audio Designs / Pendragon Review

Billy Shears

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2015
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I have heard Raidho D5 with all Soluution and vivaldi stack and nordost odin. I didn't like it, not for me. I replaced Odin with Ansuz C because the guy had both and I was very impressed with the Ansuz but not the system.

Of course with your TT and valves it might sound different, but I would prefer your Aviors to those

Hi Bonzo

What about the D-5 did you dislike?
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Great read Ron and good to see you converging on what you like to own. Is this the end of the journey or do you have more speakers to audition?

I think this is the end of the journey for now. When my wife can return to the USA we will be making a trip to Mike to hear the Evolution Acoustics MM7 and, if Gary will have us, to Genesis to hear Gary's latest work.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hi Bonzo

What about the D-5 did you dislike?

Tone mainly, but also soundstage and bass. Note I am a panel and horn fan, and in cones like veritys or real big ones like Alexandria, and cones crossed over to subs, just in case you want to calibrate tastes. Which is why I mentioned to Altan that his Techdas plus Ypsilon valves might lead to a better tone and a different perspective.
 

Argonaut

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2013
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If all you ever listen to is vocals and chamber music, then, out of this exalted group of loudspeakers, the Neolith may be the correct answer for you, as it almost is for me. But for big rock and symphony orchestra music the single 12" lower midrange driver and the single 15" woofer in the Neolith simply cannot compete with eight 8" woofers driven by a dedicated 1,000 watt amplifier. Versus the Pendragon the bass of the Neolith is not as extended, well-defined or "tight."

I think the 15" driver is the weak link in the ultra-transparent flagship from MartinLogan. I could happily live with the Neolith for rest of my life. But to do so I would have to resign myself to knowing that while its reproduction from arguably 100 Hz and up (and certainly from 400 Hz and up) is state-of-the-art, its reproduction from 100 Hz and below, while without doubt the best MartinLogan can do in a one-column format, is not state-of-the-art. As impressive and successful as the Neolith is for an all-out assault on the one-column format there just is too much going on in the bottom of the Neolith cabinet to be considered an ultimate expression of ESL hybrid design.

Ron....Have you considered augmenting Neoliths with additional ML subwoofers?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I think this is the end of the journey for now. When my wife can return to the USA we will be making a trip to Mike to hear the Evolution Acoustics MM7 and, if Gary will have us, to Genesis to hear Gary's latest work.

Ron, after I like something, I like to revisit multiple times to try and fall it before deciding. Especially at that price level
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
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Seattle, WA
I think this is the end of the journey for now. When my wife can return to the USA we will be making a trip to Mike to hear the Evolution Acoustics MM7 and, if Gary will have us, to Genesis to hear Gary's latest work.
Please put me on the itinerary if you have time. My little system will make you feel good about whatever you buy. :)
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
I think this is the end of the journey for now. When my wife can return to the USA we will be making a trip to Mike to hear the Evolution Acoustics MM7 and, if Gary will have us, to Genesis to hear Gary's latest work.

Excellent review, Ron. I might have said the same when comparing the old G1.1 to the new Pendragons. The Gryphon electronics are stupendous, and I had the pleasure of showing with Gryphon numerous times. In particular, the Gryphon phono stage I believe is hugely under-rated. I am surprised, though, to hear the Fleming is working with a cartridge with a dried-out cantilever!

Try to time your visit to the Pacific Northwest for Copper River Salmon season (mid-June onwards(. Come visit MikeL at the same time, and we'll make a party of it. For the next Dragon party, I'll smoke a whole salmon.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
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0
Seattle, WA
Try to time your visit to the Pacific Northwest for Copper River Salmon season (mid-June onwards(. Come visit MikeL at the same time, and we'll make a party of it. For the next Dragon party, I'll smoke a whole salmon.
Forget the speaker, I will be there for the salmon smoking! [says he; pre-inviting himself :D]
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Ok, I hate to say this..but I feel I must...

I fail to see the point of listening to very large speaker systems that have little to no chance of working in one's room??:eek:

The quickest way to disappointment in our hobby is to try and jam a speaker that is too large for the listening room ( or doesn't play nice in it for whatever reason) into our available listening space.
One of my good a'phile friends has gone down this route on several occasions now....He has sold his Wilson Alex 2's ( at a considerable loss), and he is now quite unhappy with his Marten Coltrane Supreme 2's....why??
Because, neither of these speakers work in his room...Period!

Perhaps, it might be an idea to start with a smaller speaker, one that will more likely work with one's room... and one that can be easily demonstrated in one's room and slowly work up to the larger
speaker....but with home demonstration as the paramount, before investing in that mega speaker....one that sounds great in the dealer/manufacturer demo at their locale, but sounds far less stellar in your smaller room.

All IMHO...;)
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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Please put me on the itinerary if you have time. My little system will make you feel good about whatever you buy. :)

Amir, send him your frequency curve, he can check whether he likes it or not :)
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Amir, send him your frequency curve, he can check whether he likes it or not :)

Don't be jealous. You can also come. There is some room left on the transportation vehicle to bring you here:



Don't forget to bring some potatoes with you to go with Gary's salmon....
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Ron....Have you considered augmenting Neoliths with additional ML subwoofers?

I sure have. I have considered dual Wilson Thors with one or two Wilson Watch Controllers, JL Audio Gothams, stacked REL G1s and custom Mark Seaton woofer towers. ML BalancedForce 212s cannot be stacked. I look forward to ML 215s which should be able to be stacked.

I think one or more of those could work (and would work) but, philosophically, I agree with Mike Lavigne's view that, if at all possible, a fully-integrated, full-frequency range solution by one manufacturer is preferable to grafting together two different systems with the risk of less than great results.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Please put me on the itinerary if you have time. My little system will make you feel good about whatever you buy. :)

I would like to visit, Amir. Thank you.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
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Beverly Hills, CA

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Dear Gary,

Thank you. I am very well aware that the 1.2 and Dragon embody many, many improvements over the 1.1.

Flemming speculated that it might be dried out -- he is not sure.

I agree that the Gryphon electronics are great. Our own Lloyd is a huge fan as well.

I have no idea when it will be but my plan is to visit you and Mike and Amir on the same trip. I would love to hear the next Dragon!
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Ok, I hate to say this..but I feel I must...

I fail to see the point of listening to very large speaker systems that have little to no chance of working in one's room??:eek:

The quickest way to disappointment in our hobby is to try and jam a speaker that is too large for the listening room ( or doesn't play nice in it for whatever reason) into our available listening space.
. . .
Perhaps, it might be an idea to start with a smaller speaker, one that will more likely work with one's room... and one that can be easily demonstrated in one's room and slowly work up to the larger
speaker....but with home demonstration as the paramount, before investing in that mega speaker....one that sounds great in the dealer/manufacturer demo at their locale, but sounds far less stellar in your smaller room.

All IMHO...;)

I think that is a very fair point. We know the room truly is the most important component.

For me personally I am very confident the Pendragon would fit in my room. The panel and the woofer tower are positioned right next to each other and, together, are 41.5" wide, exactly the same width as the just the mid/tweeter panel of the Genesis 1.2, and only about 10" wider than the Neolith.

And I know that tall ceilings are not supposed to help acoustically, but I think -- and almost everyone I talk with about tall ceilings agrees -- that the 14' ceiling, for some reason, helps.
 

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