Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

Billy Shears · Feb 6, 2016

amirm said:
Steve was not correct in stating his position as a moderator. That requires a provision in our TOS to enforce and there is none. The moment we throw out the rule book, we are in no man's land. We won't ever be able to use them for example to protect you if the tables were turned.

We never founded this forum on the basis of "hearing something first" before commenting. And it is not something we can sneak in now, no matter how much we like it at the moment.
I hope you appreciate the difficult it puts on us to do otherwise.

Amir this has nothing to do with hearing first before commenting. Even after 60pages of people saying they are thrilled with the product no one would have an issue with someone being sceptical
The whole thred is sceptical, that is not the point. Its when you get people commenting for no other purpose but to stir things up, ridicule, use vulgar comparisons etc....
You keep telling us to just read past it, but for many, stuff like this ruins the whole thread. If that is OK, then it is plain to see you dont have a rule book anyway

rockitman · Feb 6, 2016

amirm said:
There is no definition or terms in our ToS regarding trolling. In the measurement forum, we had countless senior members jump in, state their disgust with the discussion, and were not accused of trolling by administration or sanctioned in any way.

Trolling is a term used by members in forums to govern each other. It is a derogatory term that has little place in our forum in my opinion. It is also a personal remark so technically against our ToS too.

You could add it to your TOS (No Trolling Tolerated). There are plenty of credible and popular forums for a variety of interests that don't tolerate trolling and it says so in their TOS. Maybe you are entertained by all the drama ? In the end it would save you time and moderating angst as you say...not to mention improve the forum atmosphere around here and possibly re-attract participation by many non active members who used to participate and had something of value to contribute to what's best in audio.

Barry2013 · Feb 6, 2016

rockitman said:
You could add it to your TOS (No Trolling Tolerated). There are plenty of credible and popular forums for a variety of interests that don't tolerate trolling and it says so in their TOS. Maybe you are entertained by all the drama ? In the end it would save you time and moderating angst as you say...not to mention improve the forum atmosphere around here and possibly re-attract participation by many non active members who used to participate and had something of value to contribute to what's best in audio.

I agree.
We should not stop people expressing views on gear they have not heard but equally we should not tolerate deliberately unreasonable or insulting posts.

bonzo75 · Feb 6, 2016

Barry2013 said:
I agree.
We should not stop people expressing views on gear they have not heard but equally we should not tolerate deliberately unreasonable or insulting posts.

I won't buy XYZ amp because THD is so and so, is quite different from "this product is crap because it looks like it, and I am wise enough to know it can never work better than poo". I think most of us understand that Steve was referring to the second type of statement

Argonaut · Feb 6, 2016

Steve Williams said:
Keith

I have read your last few posts and would have to say that they are trolling and argumentative and you have been asked countless times before to cease and desist from making such inflammatory statements. Consider this a final warning about such posts. If you don't like the product stay out of it unless you can argue in a more professional way.

I entirely agree with Steves position on this point, the level of member integrity on this forum is IMO admirably high and is a credit to the forum as a whole, In that vain I also would like to see a Pedlar in the audio industry, posting on this forum, to display an even greater degree of professionalism and integrity when commenting upon items of audio equipment, as supplied by other dealers in the industry, whether members of the forum or not, competitors or not.

Unfortunately Mr Purite Audio has no such scruples in this regard or it would appear moral compass to stear himself by (curiously the auto spell prompt on my iPad always wishes to substitute the word Purite for Purile!!!)

amirm · Feb 6, 2016

Harlequin said:
I entirely agree with Steves position on this point, the level of member integrity on this forum is IMO admirably high and is a credit to the forum as a whole, In that vain I also would like to see a Pedlar in the audio industry, posting on this forum, to display an even greater degree of professionalism and integrity when commenting upon items of audio equipment, as supplied by other dealers in the industry, whether members of the forum or not, competitors or not.

A peddler in the industry? And you speak of professionalism? If you all of you acted professional, we would not need to manage this forum anymore. It would run by itself.

Unfortunately Mr Purite Audio has no such scruples in this regard or it would appear moral compass to stear himself by (curiously the auto spell prompt on my iPad always wishes to substitute the word Purite for Purile!!!)

Why don't you set the example in that regard? Maybe then your countryman will follow. It is this sort of antagonism that causes all of these fights and disputes.

amirm · Feb 6, 2016

rockitman said:
You could add it to your TOS (No Trolling Tolerated).

And trolling would be defined as what?

amirm · Feb 6, 2016

Billy Shears said:
Amir this has nothing to do with hearing first before commenting. Even after 60pages of people saying they are thrilled with the product no one would have an issue with someone being sceptical
The whole thred is sceptical, that is not the point. Its when you get people commenting for no other purpose but to stir things up, ridicule, use vulgar comparisons etc....
You keep telling us to just read past it, but for many, stuff like this ruins the whole thread. If that is OK, then it is plain to see you dont have a rule book anyway

Bill, I already said that was not acceptable on behalf of Keith. Here it is again: "That said, Keith please don't tease the other camp. Nothing good comes out of it. It creates a ton of work for us behind the scenes, and angst and aggravation between membership."

What was not acceptable to me was creating a new rule on the fly that read like this in Steve's moderator comment in green: "This post as well is concerning as all of us have opinions but to have an opinion on something without ever hearing it IMO is a stretch and this post also is inflammatory and argumentative."

There is nothing in our rule book that says commenting on something you have not heard is a stretch and therefore is inflammatory or argumentative. We routinely make purchases based on reputation, word-of-mouth, etc. without any personal experience. Michael just bought his JBL speakers without a single listen. Are we outlawing him talking about that? Or do we throw him out of the audiophile pool?

Ultimately this all boils down to being respectful and fair to each other. I didn't consider Steve's comment as fair to an entire camp of our audiophiles in our forum. So I spoke up. We cannot force them to worship our deity any more than you want me to enforce the reverse.

Let me finish by saying that I value all of you contributors to our forum a lot. We would not have a forum without you. But please, for your sake and mine, come here with a friendly, non-caring attitude. Steve and I don't make a cent from this forum yet dealing with member conflicts has become a full time job. It isn't fair to us. And no one is walking away happy among you either judging by the number of emotional posts, reports and PMs. Let's avoid conflicts and spend time on stuff that is purely enjoyable.

Folsom · Feb 6, 2016

It's a bit off topic, in here, but since it's being discussed...

What about trolling by insisting products are inferior or superior, that haven't been heard, and that everyone is angry that their stereo isn't X?

Trolling I think includes trying to greatly change the subject, by tearing into secondary conversation related to the topic; thereby being an interjection since it's about the secondary, not primary. That's slightly hard to discern, but in general it seems like insisting on debates that are seperated from the topic is trolling. It's worse when the debate continues presumably with the intent to get the other to submit.

On some forums the mods will temporarily lock the topic and delete the stuff that is ruining it, then reopen it. I think it's a nice, generous, thing to do since many topics are good until a flame war starts.

rockitman · Feb 6, 2016

amirm said:
And trolling would be defined as what?

this pretty much covers it, imo.

TROLLING:

Making meaningless posts with the intention of starting a dispute or disrupting the peace and harmony of this site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

Derailing threads by steering a discussion away from the original topic and onto a controversial topic with the intention of starting a dispute or disrupting the harmony of the site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

"Piling-on", or acting as a group to disparage a user who has expressed a contrarian point of view with the intent of silencing that user or running that user out of the forum is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

Intentionally teasing or provoking other users in order "get a rise out of them", thereby disrupting the harmony of this site is TROLLING and will NOT be tolerated.

Barry2013 · Feb 6, 2016

It seems to me that the issue of inappropriate and insulting language in posts needs to be effectively addressed by the moderators.
Fortunately it is not a common or regular feature of this forum but it is happening too much and by some contributors in particular who really should know better.
There will always be differences of view about the merits or demerits of a particular product and I wouldn't want to stop people expressing their views but we need to have some rules and sanctions on acceptable language and posts that are peripheral to the thread in question.
Is that really too much to ask?

Geardaddy · Feb 6, 2016

graystoke4 said:
hi, before i start i am not trying to dismiss anybody's findings, and i definitely am not trying to ruin any other thread, but i thought you might like to take a look at this,,
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180211&highlight=Entreq+Tellus,
i am as confused as most on this subject,sorry if this has been put down somewhere before ,, andy

Well, the potential DIY applications are obvious. I wonder when the Chinese clones are coming (if they aren't already here). Ralph at Atmasphere claims that grounding boxes only work on improperly designed (and grounded) electronics. Has anyone done any formal measurements with and without them? I know there are hundreds of pages of gushing end users on this forum and others.....

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 6, 2016

Purite Audio said:
If you leave the top off the box ,and train your cat ,I agree it would have a use.
Keith

I notice you never have actually tried the products yourself but spend an inordinate amount of time here knocking them. You've even managed to knock Entreq in threads completely unrelated to Entreq. Quite the achievement to get away with crap like that and not get moderated. Well done! You do actually have a skill!

Yet I went to the trouble of posting two sound files - a high res recording made directly from my DAC analogue output - one with the base model Entreq connected and one without. The differences between the two files are obvious. Far more than you hear from a cable upgrade. More like what you'd hear from a upgrade from a $1,500 MC cartridge to a $2,500 one. But you never commented on that. Why? Perhaps it is because you are scared. If you hear the differences between my two files that makes mockery of your idiotic posts. And if you don't, it makes a mockery of the fact that you have dubious listening skills but on the other hand sell audio gear for a living. So instead you just continue with your pathetic, sad little jibes. It's a lose, lose for you Keith, so your only option is to go on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on with your childish jokes. To me, 99% of your posts here tell me 99% about you, at least when it comes to your worthiness in things audio related.

Welcome to my ignore list. Some people here whom I greatly respect tell me that the person you are in the flesh is quite different to the one on these forums. It is a pity, therefore, that you don't allow that side to come out here because quite frankly, you are right up there with in the upper echelon of world championship calibre internet trolls and I am flabbergasted that you are allowed to continue to post here.

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 6, 2016

amirm said:
Steve, what you state is not the forum's position.

I sure as heck thought it was. That is why I joined this place and left the trolls behind at other websites (or so I thought). I think we should make a really simple rule here. You don't make denigrating posts about a product unless you have heard it.

Purite Audio · Feb 6, 2016

Fiddle Faddle said:
I notice you never have actually tried the products yourself but spend an inordinate amount of time here knocking them. You've even managed to knock Entreq in threads completely unrelated to Entreq. Quite the achievement to get away with crap like that and not get moderated. Well done! You do actually have a skill!

Yet I went to the trouble of posting two sound files - a high res recording made directly from my DAC analogue output - one with the base model Entreq connected and one without. The differences between the two files are obvious. Far more than you hear from a cable upgrade. More like what you'd hear from a upgrade from a $1,500 MC cartridge to a $2,500 one. But you never commented on that. Why? Perhaps it is because you are scared. If you hear the differences between my two files that makes mockery of your idiotic posts. And if you don't, it makes a mockery of the fact that you have dubious listening skills but on the other hand sell audio gear for a living. So instead you just continue with your pathetic, sad little jibes. It's a lose, lose for you Keith, so your only option is to go on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on with your childish jokes. To me, 99% of your posts here tell me 99% about you, at least when it comes to your worthiness in things audio related.

Welcome to my ignore list. Some people here whom I greatly respect tell me that the person you are in the flesh is quite different to the one on these forums. It is a pity, therefore, that you don't allow that side to come out here because quite frankly, you are right up there with in the upper echelon of world championship calibre internet trolls and I am flabbergasted that you are allowed to continue to post here.

Could you point me to your files , you recorded from your dacs analogue output ,where did you connect the grounding box?
Keith.

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 6, 2016

amirm said:
And trolling would be defined as what?

Like this. Yet another example:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19672-Akiko-Audio-Tuning-Sticks

Keith can't get by without his daily fix.

BE718 · Feb 6, 2016

rvisinta said:
You would need to hear it to realize that it really works, which it does.

Except of course it doesn't. There is no mechanism for it to do anything beneficial.

BE718 · Feb 6, 2016

Steve Williams said:
This post as well is concerning as all of us have opinions but to have an opinion on something without ever hearing it IMO is a stretch and this post also is inflammatory and argumentative.

FWIW I have never heard this equipment in any way so I don't have an opinion. What I do have however is that trolling and inflammatory statements cease and desist immediately from this thread. Debate and argument is good but not in the methods I have seen here

It is perfectly reasonable to have an opinion on a product based on technical knowledge. I don't need to hear it because I am technically informed. It allows me to be confident in the opinion that there is no mechanism for it to do anything beneficial.

Sorry but if expressing that opinion is considered trolling then I would suggest that some are being over sensitive. I appreciate that some may get defensive as the implication is that they have unfortunately been duped.

If anyone would like to explain the technical basis on which this product is supposed to work then I am all ears and willing to debate it with them. Is there something I don't understand? Is there something I have missed? Possibly. So please feel free to explain it to me, I am not so arrogant to imagine I know everything. Until then however, on the face of it this is just another example of faith based audio.

I apologise that from a technical pov I find the whole concept of the product fairly comical, I should appreciate that sometimes it's difficult for many to seperate marketing from reality in hifi. Many products do a good job of selling a convincing pseudo technical justification for their efficacy. However, I am of the opinion that this is not one of them.

I will of course refrain from further use of emotive terms such as foo.

Fiddle Faddle · Feb 6, 2016

BE718 said:
I don't need to hear it because I am technically informed.

BE718 said:
If anyone would like to explain the technical basis on which this product is supposed to work then I am all ears.

So are you technically informed or not?

Secondly, I say the same thing you that I said to Keith (and anyone else who either says it does not work or is a placebo). I have actually put comparative files up in the other thread. They sound noticeably different, yet the only difference between them is that an Entreq Minimus was connected to my ADC / DAC when one of those files was created (and wasn't connected when the other was made). That debunks the myth that it does nothing since anyone can play those two files and hear a noticeable difference between the two of them.

It isn't a question as to whether Entreq gear improves the sound of a system. It's a question of what Entreq component selection is optimal for a given system and listener preference. Even the best gear on the planet benefits. One Entreq user here even uses it with his Vivaldi DAC and in my opinion that is the most thoroughly engineered piece of audio equipment on the planet.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who tries Entreq gear and does not hear a difference. And I don't have a problem with someone who tries it and does not like what it does (I did not like the Silver Minimus myself but love the cheaper copper one). But I do have a problem with people who say it cannot work or is a placebo yet have not tried it themselves.

Geardaddy · Feb 6, 2016

Fiddle Faddle said:
I notice you never have actually tried the products yourself but spend an inordinate amount of time here knocking them. You've even managed to knock Entreq in threads completely unrelated to Entreq. Quite the achievement to get away with crap like that and not get moderated. Well done! You do actually have a skill!

Yet I went to the trouble of posting two sound files - a high res recording made directly from my DAC analogue output - one with the base model Entreq connected and one without. The differences between the two files are obvious. Far more than you hear from a cable upgrade. More like what you'd hear from a upgrade from a $1,500 MC cartridge to a $2,500 one. But you never commented on that. Why? Perhaps it is because you are scared. If you hear the differences between my two files that makes mockery of your idiotic posts. And if you don't, it makes a mockery of the fact that you have dubious listening skills but on the other hand sell audio gear for a living. So instead you just continue with your pathetic, sad little jibes. It's a lose, lose for you Keith, so your only option is to go on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on...and on with your childish jokes. To me, 99% of your posts here tell me 99% about you, at least when it comes to your worthiness in things audio related.

Welcome to my ignore list. Some people here whom I greatly respect tell me that the person you are in the flesh is quite different to the one on these forums. It is a pity, therefore, that you don't allow that side to come out here because quite frankly, you are right up there with in the upper echelon of world championship calibre internet trolls and I am flabbergasted that you are allowed to continue to post here.

The ad hominem angle does not help your position. The irony is that members of the Entreq tribe have done what I would call passive aggressive trolling of competitor-related threads and have even gone so far as to troll a competitors personal system page on another site. Its a free world, but you have to be prepared to do some reaping and sowing....

I too would be interested to hear those files. Load them up here. And for the record, I believe in the grounding game. I have heard its fruits.

Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

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